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0:04Okay. Um, good morning. So, the live stream is on. So, um, yesterday you had a chance to ask questions about the previous class and that went very well. So, I want to thank you for asking a great question.
you went back, you reviewed um what we learned and you matched our ideas with the text and you recognized that there's a sentence, right, which is you shoot the aerial, you shoot the arrow, it lands first, then it uh flies, then it is released from the bow, right? That's a great question. And then Carol had a great response and because she's actually studying this text and um so this is exactly the sort of interaction that I want in the seminar where you guys are really analyzing the text critically and this is forcing us to think deeper about the meaning of the text. Okay. And this is exactly, you know, what Yale tries to achieve in its seminars back in New Haven.
So, let's begin with questions from yesterday. You had a chance to go back and review the text. Again, it's really important that you guys spend time rereading the text to make sure you understand what's going on. Okay. So, any questions from yesterday that you had?
Yes. you need to press on to for other people to hear.
So like in candle 6 uh there is like this narrative of Rome's history and something that really confused me is actually a historical reference. So okay so it said starting when
2:04could you give us a line please? Why do Why do you see the line
on the on the
Oh,
her version doesn't have the
Oh, let's try to use one version. Okay. Um, as you can see, this is the minimum version of the Colombia website. Okay, let's let's just use that guys so that we are aligned. Uh, the problem is I put metal bomb on both sides while only the Italian version is numbered.
Only the Italian version is numbered.
Yeah,
they're on the same line.
Yeah. Yeah, I know. So, like uh I was talking about lines 36 when palace died that it might gain a kingdom. So according to my understanding palace the story of palace and Aphina is a very Greek story and it doesn't have like much re relevance to the Roman Empire. Uh it's a very personal Athena story.
So what does this have to do with the history?
Yeah that's a great question. Um does anyone know the answer? It's actually a very hard question. So I want to thank you for pointing this out. So Palace and we're twins, right?
and um Athena had to kill palace in order to live. The story of the founding of Rome is that Ramis and Remis were twins and they grew up together and they um rose up together and they loved each other and then um after they defeated like an evil uncle, they were assigned a plot of land which became modern day Rome. The two go to Rome and they decide we can't rule Rome as twins. One of us has to be the king, the other has to go away. And so that that this competition this competition leads to a war where
4:05Romulus kills Remis. Okay. And this is interesting because this is actually a very um uh common archetype in something called protoindo-uropean mythology. Okay, protoindo-uropean mythology some of you may know is the basis for European culture. Okay.
So, um the arch ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar archaeologists believed that the puindo Europeans uh lived in the steps of modern day Ukraine. They spread around the world to Europe to India to Iran and they really conquered most of the world and they did so with a certain mythology of conquest. Okay. And at the very basis of this mythology is that um you must kill the person you love. You must kill your twin in order to climb to power.
And this is what it it refers to. All right. So what Donn is doing what what he does throughout the divine comedy which is very confusing for people is that he tends to combine myths together. Okay. So you have the myth of palace and Athena.
What he's saying is that that refers to the myth of Ramis and Remis, right? Because we all know because in this context, okay, this is the 14th century. Obviously, you're you have to be very well educated to read Dante. So, everyone knows the mythology of Ramis and Remis. And then what uh Dante said does in this one line is it also reminds us of the legend of Palace and Athena.
Okay, does that make sense?
Um a follow-up question because according to my understanding, according to Wikipedia, which is not a credible source, but it's valuable for basic understanding, uh Palace and Aphina were not in direct opposition like they were
6:06not fighting over a territory. uh Athena locked palace and accidentally killed her. So uh while the theme of killing a twin is the same, I don't see how this has to do with a territorial dispute.
Okay. Um so um again, the idea is that um you must kill someone you love in order to fully become yourself. Okay. So, so that's what poetry is. Poetry presents um two ideas that may not be interrelated and it forces you to use your imagination in order to relate the two things.
You're absolutely right. Like pallet and Athena, Ramis and Remis, I didn't see the connection. And what Donnie is doing is by putting putting them together in a with um with the grammar, it forces you to see the connection. Okay. What is a simile?
A simile is an unseen connection, right? The sky is a snail. Okay. All right. The sky and snail, they have nothing to do with each other, but because I put these two together, it activates excites your imagination to see the connection.
Okay. That's what poetry is. Does that make sense? Okay. All right.
Yes. Thank you, Carol. Yes. Um, thank you so much for um, the questions. Um, I want to preface today, it's our third day, and say that um, I've been really grateful for the open and candid dialogues and questionings we've had because this may not be happening elsewhere in the world.
Um, that's one. So, kudos to all of you. Second, um I was um very happy to hear from one of you this morning who said I love the music because um I played some music before class started this morning and it was actually Jack Johnson whom
8:06someone else said um was from his college days. Um, the reason I played some music, um, is because, um, I want to read a really short portion of his lyrics to you and kind of, um, give you a glimpse of how I think, um, it might be helpful to be approaching um, Dante and poetry and beautiful works of art um, in general. So, this is um, from 20 years ago, upside down, Jad Johnson. Who's to say what's impossible? Well, they forgot this world keeps spinning.
And with each new day, I can feel a change in everything. And as the surface breaks, reflections fade, and in some ways, they remain the same. And as my mind begins to spread its wings, there's no stopping curiosity. So, um, I hope to be hearing from more and more of you. um hear that you're curious, hear that you're adding to the conversation.
Um you know, even even despite thinking that you you may disagree amongst yourself. Um but that's part of um the leap of faith that John talked about yesterday. So thank you.
Well, thank you, Carol. Um absolutely. Um, and as you can see, what's happening is that across time, across space, different artists, whether they're poets, they're musicians, they're trying to convey the same message. So, you have to think it might be from the same source, right? Uh, and that's what Dante is trying to explain in Divine Comedy.
There is a common source and from this common source, uh, we can generate our creativity. Okay. Any other questions from last class before I begin? Yes. Thank you.
So, I don't have a question related to
10:06like the wording, but I I was just rereading this and looking at the art in like the digital Dante, and something striking about Beatatrice is that she actually looks kind of masculine. So, I've been to like those um art museums where they have like medieval galleries and I think that the women did look different. So, they had like veils and they were wearing dresses. But Beatatrice here, at least on the digital Dante website, doesn't really look like a girl. So, like is this be is was this like purposeful in a way or something?
Um what does Okay. Um I don't know enough about Renaissance art to comment. Okay. But um let's imagine what's happening. Okay.
So last cl la yesterday we discussed how Dante is able to conceive the divine comedy. Okay. And so Donnie is starting off with a framework that enables him to construct the divine comedy. Okay. So think of this as the blueprint or the scaffolding that allows you to slowly visualize the entire building.
This framework must be the dialogue between Dante and Beatatrice. Okay, does that make sense? Okay, so even from an early age, he knows Beatatrice, he falls in love with Beatatrice. Um they don't really but they really don't know that each other. And so what happens is that he imagines Beatatrice as his basically imaginary best friend or and in the future as um his lover.
Okay. Now the problem with this is you don't know enough about Beatatrice in order to make Beatric a fully fleshed out character.
12:07So what happens is Beatatrice becomes your alter ego. Okay? It becomes like a yin-yang dynamic, right? Where you are implanting your feminine aspects onto Beatatrice. And so, in other words, Beatrice doesn't really exist as a real person.
Beatrice is just Dante's twin basically.
So, like a reflection of Dante that's like higher and more divine. Okay, it's actually much more complicated than that, which is that you study this um occult esoterism, this mysticism, what they believe is that we are a reflection of God. And God is always a dual nature, both a masculine and a feminine. Okay? So within us, there's always a masculine and a feminine.
So what Donnie has done is basically is split himself into two. He's Donnie the masculine and um Beatrice the feminine. Okay. So um again I don't know but what I think if I'm a painter, I'm an artist and I recognize this, what I'm trying to do is show that Beatrice is just an alter ego of Dante.
Okay, does that make sense?
Yeah.
And again, I'm just speculating. Okay, I'm just using my imagination as to what what has happened because because I'm not the artist. Okay, I I don't know what's going on, but this is really important for you guys to appreciate that the process process of creativity, the process of um imagination requires you to recognize your dual self, split yourself off and have a dialogue within yourself that becomes the basis for the creation of whatever art you create, whether it's a painting or a poem or
14:09even a building. Okay? Okay. And this is usually how the creative process works. All right.
Okay. Any more questions? Got one. Um, so we we expanded our idea of vows and I was trying to think about um Parda made a vow in the nunnery to God. I was trying to think of Picarda's brother seemed to make a vow on the battlefield.
We just imagine that.
Oh, we just imagine.
We don't know.
But but like a person could just say um if this happens then I swear to God something something and that's a vow.
I was wondering what other vows a person would make. Um a common person just an everyday. And so I could I could think of like marriage vows is is a simple one. Baptismal vows might be made for you on your behalf because Anabaptists don't exist. And so um what other vows might occur in everyday society that you're breaking?
is you don't have to just walk around going, I swear to God, if I get an A, I'm going to do XYZ.
Okay. Yeah, that's a really interesting question. So, what I will say is that what Donnie will say is to be fully human, you must get into the habit of making vows to yourself. Okay? Because that ultimately is what motivates you, what drives you to high to a higher good, right?
Making a vow means being able to have hope in the future and loving yourself and having faith in the universe. Okay. So these are three ideas that we'll talk a lot about for the next two days. Hope, love, and faith. So making a vow is an expression of hope, love, and faith.
So you should be doing this every single day. Okay. Okay. Any more questions? Okay.
All right. So, um
16:11I want to begin class by talking about why we're here. Okay. So, I I want to ex I want to talk about two basic principles. The first principle is what is our mission? Okay.
And our mission is to share Dante with the world. Okay. So the construction of this class, the structure of this class, it's unique because there are three things that make this class different from others in the world. Okay. First of all, I hate to say this, but it's it's free, guys.
All right? And this has to do with the generosity of Carol who's and and I'm me as well because because I'm teaching this for free but this is an amazing space. Um people online cannot see this but this is but we are really on top of Beijing. You know this is a panoramic panoramic view of Beijing. For those of you who are in Beijing for the first time I'm sure this is an extremely impressive view.
So first of all it's free. Okay you guys are here. I mean like I know some of you have have you know flown from far away but basically it's a free class. Okay, that's number one. Number two is um the diversity of the students in this class.
So again people at home don't see this but we have students from all age groups. Okay we have adults, we have even a ninth grader believe it or not. Um we also have people from different cultures from different um countries who've come a long way. Okay. So just the diversity of this class it's also unique right and the third thing is that we are live
18:12streaming everything we do. Okay. Nothing is rehearsed. If I say something stupid it's going to live forever online. Okay.
So the question then is why is the class constructed in this way? It's free, it's diverse and it's being live streamed. And the reason why is that as a group we are trying to prove to the world that anyone anywhere can love Dante. Okay? Regardless of your culture, regardless of your age, you can love Dante.
Donnie speaks to you individually and together we're trying to show the world that anyone can read and love Dante and give them the tools and the thought processes in order to fully understand Dante uh and set everyone on that journey. Um, I hope that regardless of where you are, whether you're in Africa or South America or even um the Arctic, who knows? But this class will inspire you to partake in your own journey. And this class will give you all the tools you need in order to fully appreciate Dante. So, our mission here is to share Dante with the world.
Okay. It is an act of love. It is an act of faith. It is an act of hope. And we have to remember that that is our central mission.
In order to achieve the central mission, you yourselves must in this room, okay, must fully engage Dante and fully put your heart into Dante. And to do that, you have to remember how to truly understand Dante. And the trick is this, okay? It is to learn Dante
20:14so that you may teach it as an act of love. Okay. So this is the key. If you truly want to understand Dante, you have to read and learn Dante. And imagine that you're doing so so that one day you can teach it to someone that you truly love as an act of love.
All right? So every day after class, you you should go home and visualize that one day. You could have your own classroom with your own students or you could have your own children or you could be talking to your mother over the dinner table or you be talking to your best friend. It doesn't matter. Okay?
But imagine yourself like Dante in heaven with Beatatrice. And what are they doing? They are debating each other. They're learning together. They're sharing with each other.
That is the true act of love. Okay? So I guarantee you if you put yourself in the frame of mind that I'm here today so that tomorrow I can share Dante with someone I love as an act of love. You will truly understand Dante. Okay.
So these are the two things I want you to keep in mind. Our mission here in this classroom is to co-create together a classroom so that everyone in the world can listen in and love Dante. We we are spreading Dante throughout the world. That is our central mission. Nothing else comes before this.
And second, if you're truly to understand Dante, if you're truly to
22:15read the Divine Comedy and understand what's going on, you have to commit yourself to loving someone and sharing Dante with that person. It could be anyone. It could be your mother. Uh it could be your brother. It could be your student.
It doesn't matter. And but it has to be a real person, guys. Okay? All right. Having said that, I want to explain why it's important to share Dante with the world.
Okay. All right. So, let's go to the year 1300. In the year 1300, there are many places in the world. Okay.
In the Middle East, there's something called the Islamic Golden Age. Okay? Islam. Islamic golden age. In China and in Asia, there is the Pax Mangalaka.
The Mongols are in charge. Um, in Central America, you have the Mayans. Okay? And in Europe, you have uh medieval Europe. You guys can't appreciate this, but in the year 1300, medieval Europe was essentially a hole.
Okay? It was the worst place in the world to be. Excuse me. Basically, the dark ages. Yes.
Um I find that a very reductionist view to be honest. Like uh a lot of people say bad things about the Middle Ages. I agree. Middle Ages bad place to be compared to now compared to the Renaissance. But we have to admit that the Middle Ages was were the foundation for what became the Renaissance.
And the renaissance did not change things much for the average person. It changed things a lot for the intellectuals and for the high class people. I think that's important to keep in mind.
Okay. So, so I'm trying to make a point here. Okay. The point is that in your
24:161300, if you were Mayan and you visited Europe, if you were living in Baghdad and you visited Europe, if you were living in China, you visit Europe, you would think this place is a hole. Okay? You would think this place is hopeless. These people are barbarians. All they do is kill each other.
There is censorship. There is there is no learning. It's all anti-learning, anti-intellectual. But at the same time, 28 years in the future, there is there's there's a renaissance which then leads to the second revolution, the enlightenment, the age of conquest where Europe will span out and conquer everyone. Okay.
All right. So the question is how did this happen? Why is it in the year 1300, you go there and you think these people are completely hopeless, right? It's like basically like us, I hate to say this, but it's like basically us going to the m to the Middle East right now and saying, "Oh my god, these pl this place is hopeless. They're all killing each other.
There's endless war. They can't agree on anything. They're they are in anti-arning, anti-intellectual. This place is completely hopeless. How was it possible that 20 years later you would have the renaissance, you have this emergence of Europe?
And my answer is Dante. Okay, it is because of what Dante did because of what? Because of the divine comedy that Europe would then go on to expand itself, to change itself. And then the question then is okay how is Dante able to fundamentally change the character of the Europeans and it's the divine comedy and what I will show you is that he places three things before all
26:17others. Okay. He he fundamentally reimagines what it means to be human by placing three virtues above all else. They of course are faith, hope, love. Now you think yourself, wait a minute here, this is just the Christian virtues.
Okay, the only difference is, okay, back then you had faith, hope, and then it was charity. So what's the big deal here? The big deal is how Dante will come to define these terms. Okay, divine comedy fundamentally is trying to show you what these ideas really mean. So for Dante, faith is the belief and the understanding of the nature of God.
Right? Faith is to understand that God is first and foremost love and God is not this vengeful uh spiteful entity but this all forgiving all generous allloving source. Okay, that is what the faith is. Second is the idea of hope. The idea of hope is that by making vows, you can create for yourself your own future that you imagine it to be.
Okay. So hope is fundamentally not a passive thing where you pray to God and hope God gives it to you but you actively imagine yourself and then God co-creates with you. And love for Dante is the unifying force of the universe. It is what God is. It is what connects us to each other.
Okay, love is about connection. Now then the question then is okay if
28:20this is what Donnie said, how is this different from the Catholic Church or what Paul said? Okay. And so um what Dante says is this. For faith, hope, and love to exist in the world, it has to be an active act of imagination. Okay?
Do you understand? These things don't exist by themselves. They're not given us to by by God. It is imagined by us in this world. Okay?
And what allows for the imagination to take place is poetry which of course is divine comedy. So imagine divine comedy as really the big bang of western civilization. Okay. It is what starts modernity because it enables enables us to imagine faith, love and hope. All right.
Um so for people at this time in the middle ages this is a revolution. We don't think this is a big deal now because because we live in a world created by Dante. But before Dante before the big bang people imagine these things as fundamentally about obedience. Okay? Just obey authority.
Obey the church. Obey the priest and you'll be good. That is what faith, love, and hope is. Okay. Now, what's interesting is that this idea that everything is based on obedience also comes from poetry.
But it is Virgil, okay, the Iniad. And this something we'll discuss um later on, okay, next week. Okay, do you understand? So what I'm trying to tell
30:21you is that at the fundamental core of the universe is a spiritual war between two poets Virgil and Dante. Virgil through his poetry makes us believe that through obedience we can achieve faith, hope and love. But what Donnie is doing with divine comedy is arguing that no it must be for our imagination in which we are able to achieve faith, love and hope. Okay. So this is the this basically the framework for this class.
This is the grand thesis I I will present to you as we go along. Okay. These next few days we will study why faith, hope and love are important and how Dante will conceptualize this. And then starting uh um after the break we will go into this larger cosmic war between Virgil and Dante to reimagine humanity. All right.
So that's a plan. Uh yes.
So my first question has to do uh with the very euroentric nature of this so-called cosmic war. So Virgil and Dante are both Europeans and I think it might be more appropriate to say that this is a war fought on the European thoughtscape rather than across the entire cosmos. And the second part is I'm a little bit confused when you're talking about obedience. So you said that Dante speaks against obedience but he speaks for the obedience of vows and obedience to God. So how is that different?
Okay. So let me answer your second question first. Okay. Okay. So it's really a difference between how you perceive your role in the world.
Are you an active participant in the world? Are you a passive participant in the world? According to Virgil, according to the Catholic Church, um um I should also point out that this idea of obedience comes from two major theologians of the
32:22Catholic Church. There of course are Paul and Augustine. Okay? Paul who is the founder of Catholic Church and Augustine who is the major theologian of the Catholic Church who will systemize the teachings of Paul. Okay.
But they get the but they get their ideas from Virgil. All right. So um so um the um what Augustine teaches people that is very important is that because of of the original sin because of our disobedience from God humans are inherently evil. If you're inherently evil, you should probably not do too many things. Okay?
Because all you do is create more evil in the world. Therefore, you should just obey. And if you obey and you avoid sin, that is the that is the fastest path to heaven. Okay? Does that make sense?
Just obedience. Do what the church tells you and you will do good in the world or you will not do evil in the world and then you will ascend to heaven. Okay? So this it's a very fatalistic very pessimistic worldview. Okay.
So that's a major difference. Yes.
Uh can I add to this? I actually was rereading and and researching last night city of God by Augustine and he would say that because of the fall, let me pull up my notes. because of the fall. Um, uh, Jesus was the only perfect person because Adam was exiled from the Garden of Eden. Adam's sin essentially damaged human nature.
That's right.
And the damage itself was inherited by all the descendants of Adams
through the mechanism of of semen. Right. And this it's this concept of every human has sexual desire almost as a punishment. And um even the people even the saints and the and most holy people of all time uh who denied themselves they would they would be um what do you call celibate
34:24they they're denying themselves sexual desire. Uh Augustine calls this fake. He is not impressed with this at all. And he would say like it's a person who's like fasting they still they're still hungry right and it's that hunger that desire that's the that you cannot fake. It's still there, right?
Um and so the greatest saint and the worst criminal are all equally fallen before God.
Yes. Exactly. So as so so you can appreciate this is what's being taught in in at this time, right? We are just completely hopeless. We are beyond salvation.
We are just beyond redemption. Just don't cause any trouble, guys. Just obey and then and then when you die, maybe God will save you. Okay? So, it's a very pessimistic, very fatalistic viewpoint.
But when you read the line comedy, it's very optimistic. Um, it's very hopeful. Okay. It's it's just emits love. Okay.
So, thank you so much for for that. Okay. All right. Great. All right.
So, let me answer the second question, which is Virgil and Dante are European, and so therefore, they don't speak for all of humanity. Okay. So, I'm going to get into a lot of trouble for saying this, but I don't perceive poetry as culturally uh located. Okay? I think poetry is universal.
The entire point of teaching Dante in Beijing in the year 2026 to mostly Chinese students from different age groups, high school, university, adults is to prove the universality of Dante. Right? So if if Dante is only European, why is it that we have students from China who are really focused on Dante,
36:27who find inspiration in Dante? Why is it that if culture really matters that much, how are how are we able to create this classroom? Could could you answer that? What I'm saying is not that they are limited to Europe. I'm saying that they are only representative of Europe.
So it's like it's like there are so many types of poetry out there. And you're basically saying that these two are the archetypes. These two are the big bads. These two are the big bads fighting out against each other. I'm saying there might be better archetypes out there.
There might be different archetypes out there also fighting it out. And I'm saying but like rather than just saying there might be give me an example. Um I'm not sure I could pronounce the name but uh for example like in India there are different types of poetry and holy scripture and they're one one of these I remember is called the arryaka and they're about the forest they're about uh the primal the the primal nature of man. So instead of talking about uh obedience versus disobedience maybe we can talk about civilization vs uh primal nature of man. I'm just saying these are different perspectives that Virgil and Dante do not encapsulate.
Um, okay. So, I don't know enough about Indian poetry to comment. Okay. But the point I'm trying to make is this. Um, in this classroom, we are making certain assumptions.
We are assuming the universality of Dante. Um meaning D can speak to everyone of all cultures of all ages across all of time. Okay. And you need that sort of arrogance or um sense of supremacy in order to fully appreciate Dante. Okay.
So I appre I understand yes there must be other great
38:27works of literature out there. Show it to me, okay? Rather than tell me you're just being ignorant, you're just being uh racist. Show me, okay? Take it upon yourself to learn this stuff and share with the world.
I I would love to be proven wrong about Dante. I think Dante is the greatest poet in the world. I think Dante speaks for everyone. I think Dante is universal. I think it doesn't matter if you are Chinese or if you are Indian or if you are anyone, okay?
You will love Dante if you make the effort to appreciate Dante. And I don't think anyone else compares to Dante. I make this arrogant statement. And if you say you are wrong, then take the time as I've taken the time to learn Dante and show me another poet who is just as worthy to learn as Dante. I'm not saying that you're racist.
I'm not saying any of these things. I don't know why you arrived at the conclusion. I am saying that it is part of our academic responsibility to limit ourselves as researchers to what we know and what we do not. And you I agree with you. You are making a very arrogant statement and perhaps that statement has a place in this class.
But my point is it is part of your academic responsibility to limit the scope of that statement.
Okay? This is not an economic classroom. Okay? This is not designed to be in the classroom. I already said what our two missions are, right?
Share Dante with the world, right? Why do I share Dante with the world? Because I think that in this time and age, when there is war, when there is hopelessness, when there is conflict, I believe that resummoning Dante to this world, spreading Dante to this world will give humanity hope. That's what I fundamentally believe.
40:27That's what I think our mission is. Okay? not just share Dante with the world, but to we summon Dante physically into our world with our imagination so that Dante can help save the world from whatever we're doing. Okay? So, keep in mind guys, this is the point of why we're here to share Dante with the world.
That's a primary mission. Everything must follow from this mission. If you're like, "No, I want to learn academically." There are tons of daunting academic courses, right? Um Carol, when we introduced this course online, did did we not say this?
This is not a course.
Okay.
Academic program. Um there's, for example, an openio course by a Sterling professor on Dante and translation. You can look for many of these.
Okay. Do do you understand? And that that's why I have to emphasize. Okay. There's a mission here.
Let's stick to the mission. If you do not agree the mission, then this course is probably not for you. Okay? That's why it's not a course, but but this this this setup, okay, or or this platform, okay, is not for you. Okay?
We are here to truly learn to love Dante so that we may share it with others. Okay, any more questions before we begin? Okay, so what we're going to do now is we're going to jump ahead. We're going to skip around because I want to show to you, all right, what how Dante is going to recreate the idea of humanity. All right.
So, first thing is we're going to go to 10 to 11. 10 to 11. Okay.
42:33Yep. All right. So, what's happening is that Beatus and Dante are traveling through the cosmos, right? And we're going to skip skip around. Um, not because the other kinds are not important.
It's just I don't I don't have as I mentioned uh yesterday I don't have the full knowledge to fully interpret the other counts but I want to focus on candles 11 and 12 this morning. So what's happening is that Dante will meet um two individuals. The first indivi individual is Thomas Aquinus who is um only second Augustine. Um so so Thomas Thomas Aquinus is the second most famous Catholic theologian in the world and why it's important is that he is going to try to reconcile classical Greek philosophy with the Christian faith. Okay.
And he's really the first to attempt this. Um this is being done throughout the throughout the world in Islamic golden age. But again at this time um Europe is extremely ignorant and isolated from the rest of the world and Thomas Aquinus is going to change that by bringing Israelian thought back into Christian theology. Okay. So that's Thomas Aquinus.
Thomas Aquinus is part of an order called the Dominicans. Okay. The Dominicans are essentially the Jesuits, the pre- Jesuits. Um and these are people who are dedicated to learning and education and they are doing this in order to better enforce Christian orthodoxy throughout Europe. Okay.
So that's the Dominicans and then uh in panel 12 we'll uh we will meet um Baronaventure who is
44:35part of an order called the Franciscan order. Okay. Francian order was started by Francis Aissi who who made a vow to poverty and this is very similar to Jesus right Jesus as we discussed yesterday he found a movement called the poor uh and they made a vow to poverty and so uh St. Francis also made a vow to poverty. The problem with both orders is they started out great.
Okay, their founders were visionary. They really brought hope to the world. I mean the Catholic Church at this time was being criticized for corruption uh for engaging in worldly affairs. And these two movements seemed the answer. They were reform movements that seemed to bring hope to Europe.
But ultimately both fail. Okay. So what Dante wants to figure out is why is it that these two movements which started out great the Dominicans uh with their um selfless pursuit of knowledge and the Franciscans with their selfless pursuit of spirituality. Why did they fail? Okay, that's a question before us.
All right. So um can we uh read Carol please? This is counter 11. Okay.
Paradise KTO 11. Oh senseless cares of mortals, how deceiving are psyogistic reasonings that bring your wings to flight so low to earthly things. One studied law and one the apherisms of the physicians. One was set on priesthood and one through force or fraud on rulership. One meant to plunder, one to politique, one labored tangled in delights of flesh, and one was fully bent on indolence.
Okay. So here Donnie is criticizing
46:35academic studies, right? Okay. What is his concern about academic studies at this time? What what does he mean? Anyone?
Uh yes.
They all have ulterior motives.
Good. Yes.
Uh that they focus too much on the material and not the spiritual.
Yeah. Exactly. Okay. So the idea is syllogistic reasonings. Okay.
Rather than use your mind to pursue God and the truth. Uh yes. Did you do you have a question?
No. No. I I was trying to answer your question too. So like uh I'm reminded of something in Crusader Kings the game. Uh like you can have your priest uh justify your claim to a plot of enemy land through theology.
So what he's saying here, how I understand it is that he's saying that uh theology is not studied for its own sake but to amass power.
Exactly. Okay. That that that's that's what everyone agrees on. Right. This is a problem with theology with academics at this point in history.
Quite honestly, it's no different today by the way. But um but um uh he points out this is a real problem. Okay. Keep on going. Verse 10.
While I delivered from our servitude to all these things, was in the height of heaven with Beatress so gloriously welcomed, after each of those spirits had returned to that place in the ring where it had been, it halted like a candle in its stand. And from within the splendor that had spoken to me before I heard him as he smiled become more radiant, more pure begin.
So he of course is Thomas Aquinus. All right, who will explain um the Franciscan order. Okay, so this is weird because uh Thomas Aquinus is of the of the Dominican order but he will
48:36explain the glories of the Franciscan order and what he will do is he will criticize his own order and then the next counter we'll meet another guy Bonavure who is of the Franciscan order praise the Dominican order and then he criticism on his own order. Okay. All right. Uh keep on going.
Verse 19. Even as I grow bright within its rays, so as I gaze at the eternal light, I can perceive your thoughts and see their cause. You're in doubt. You want an explanation in language that is open and expanded, so clear that it contends your understanding of two points where I said they fatten well and where I said no other ever rose. And here one has to make a clear distinction.
Okay. So um so we we skipped ahead but Thomas Aquinus already is having conversation with Dante and they found him well off obviously refers to corruption in the um Catholic church. Okay so he's trying to explain uh how this happened. Okay, keep on going. Okay, line 28.
The providence that rules the world with wisdom so fathomless that creatures intellects intellects are vanquished and can never probe its death depth. So that the bride of him who with loud cries had wed her with his blessed blood might meet her love with more fidelity and more assurance in herself on her behalf commanded that there be two princes one on this side one on that side as her guide.
Okay. Okay. So this is the most these are the two most important tets of this conto. Okay. So let's try to unpack this.
Does anyone know what the bride of Jesus is? The bride of God. Who what is the bride of God?
Um well if I was a heretic I would say Mary Magdalene.
No guys. It's a Catholic church right? The bride
50:36of God.
Yeah. Yeah. A heretic.
All right. The bride of God is a Catholic church. Okay. So, how's how's the Catholic Church founded? It was founded uh through the sacrifice of Jesus, right?
So, after Jesus was crucified, the Catholic Church came into being in order to continue Jesus' mission on earth. Right? So, the Catholic Church made a vow to God that we will forever marry and I will forever promote your message in the world. Okay? And in order to achieve this uh what will happen is they will uh give rise to two princes to ensure that the mission continues despite the corruption and the decay of the Cath Catholic Church.
And these two princes are St. Fran Francis who will found the Franciscan order who are devoted to poverty and then Dominic who founded the Dominican order who will who will promote themselves uh who will dedicate themselves to learning as well as promoting um Catholic orthodoxy throughout Europe. Okay. These are the ones who are responsible to squash all heresies. Okay.
All right. So this is the origins of the Catholic Church. Keep on going. Verse 37. One prince was also in his order.
The other for his wisdom had possessed the splendor of sherubic light on earth.
So the um so the sheriff and the sherb are two orders of angels. Okay. So the angels have taken possession of these two individuals Francis and Dominic. And it's the angels who will guide them in their mission. Okay.
Verse 40. I shall devote my tale to one because in praising either prince, one
52:37praises both. The labors of the two were toward one goal.
Okay, so he's going to talk about Francis. Okay, keep on going.
Verse 43. Between Topino's stream and that which flows down from the hill the blessed Ubaldo chose. From a high peak there hangs a fertile slope. From there Perugia feels both heat and cold at Porto sole. While behind its sorrow, Noera and Gualdo under their hard yoke.
From this hillside where it abates its rise, a son was born into the world. Much like this sun when it is climbing from the Ganges. Therefore, let him who names this site not say ai which would be to say too little but orient if he would name it rightly. That son was not yet very distant from his rising when he caused the earth to take some comfort from his mighty influence. For even as a youth he ran to war against his father on behalf of her the lady unto whom just as to death none willingly unlocks the door before his spiritual court at Cororum Potatree he wed her day by day he loved her more she was bereft of her first husband scorned obscure for some years until that son came she had had no soo her.
Okay. All right. So, let's try to figure out what's going on. Okay. Francis married someone.
Okay. He married this person in defiance of his family, of his father. Okay. Um, does anyone know the story of Francis Aisi? Okay.
C can you can you u explain who who he is and what he did? Uh so basically he's a saint obviously and the
54:37founder of the Francisian order and and his whole thing is that he's really poor really really really really poor poorer than Augustinians poorer than Dominicans.
Okay and
sorry how did he become poor?
Uh he gave away all his riches.
Okay. So he's born rich. Okay. He was born into a wealthy family and he said to his parents I don't want this. Okay.
I want poverty. So he rejected his family. He rejected his legacy. He rejected his community in order to wed poverty. Okay?
So the bride, she is referring to poverty, right? And who married poverty before Francis? Poverty has two husbands. Francis is the second. Who would be the first?
Jesus, right? Okay. Jesus was the first husband and then after he died, no one wanted to marry her again. Okay. Like, I don't want poverty.
Screw this. Okay. Francis is like, I will do it. I will marry poverty. Okay.
Okay. Does does that make sense, guys? All right. So, the she refers to poverty. Keep on going.
Verse 67. Nor did it help her when men heard that he who made earth tremble found her unafraid, serene with Amiclas when he addressed her. Nor did her constancy and courage help when she, even when Mary stayed below, suffered with Christ upon the cross. But so that I not tell my tale too darkly. You may now take Frances and take poverty to be the lovers meant in my recounting.
Their harmony and their glad looks, their love
56:37and wonder, and their gentle contemplation served others as a source of holy thoughts. So much so that the venerable Bernard went barefoot first. He hurried toward such peace, and though he ran, he thought his pace too slow. Oh wealth unknown. Oh good that is so fruitful.
Gideas goes barefoot and Sylvester behind the groom the bride delights them so. Then Francis father master goes his way with both his lady and his family the lowly cord already around their waist.
Okay so he is referring to a happy marriage right. Francis gives up everything to marry poverty and they are the happiest couple in the world and there are followers who also embrace embrace poverty and they become a family. Okay. And this becomes a Franciscan order the early Franciscan order. Why would you be happy marrying poverty?
This is this goes into everything that we've been taught, right? You want to be happy, you must get rich. Why would you be happy marrying poverty?
Uh yes.
Like what if with without money you can you're like living from the material world. So there's because without money nothing you can buy. You cannot get happiness from those materials or some like physical object instead. You can't truly find your spirits when you don't when the material cannot make you feel a straight.
Yeah. Okay. So what you're saying is that money sort of blinds you right? You focus on money. You focus on material world and that blinds you from a greater truth.
Okay, good. Anyone else?
Oh yeah, maybe because he want to go to paradise, go to heaven because if you just do not be rich, then maybe you'll be in heaven just like the god said, right? So maybe,
right? So Jesus said that if you are poor, you have riches in heaven. Yes. Okay. Blessed are the meek.
Uh yes.
58:38So uh he had riches first, right? And he was giving them all away. Maybe he was trying to do good deeds by giving arms.
C could could you could you elaborate on on this?
Um so like uh he has all this money and to get rid of it to become poor he doesn't chuck it in the river. He gives it away to like beggars to vagrants and even when he found his order the Franciscan order uh there he took in people who have no other home and for the people who have property he took their donations and he used it to do good works in the local area. So it's a way of spreading out.
Are you just assuming that or do you know that?
Uh I read the story. Yeah.
Okay. So he gave away his wealth.
Yeah.
Okay. All right. But I'm saying like why would he do that?
Uh yes. So in the line 60 uh 76 they say um their harmony and their glad looks their love and wonder and their gentle consolation serve others as a source of holy thoughts. So probably um he's trying to show the world that you can um also like like he said um you can you can you can go look for your inner um spirit and um spiritual um enlightenment rather than chasing money. He he as an example he he want to show the world that this is can be a way
okay so thank you first of all I love the fact that you refer to the text okay this is really important guys we're here to learn Dante always refer to the text and second of all you're absolutely right in that being an inspiration to others brings you tremendous delight right so back to the uh uh second learn Dante so that you may teach it to others as an act of Right? So the reason why you do that is it makes you a happier person. Okay? Not only does it give you more enlightenment, but it brings greater happiness to you. So by being a good example, by being a good leader, he's bringing he's creating more happiness in the world and that in him creates more happiness.
Good. Okay.
60:39So if bearing poverty can be good, why don't we do it then? Huh? There's been two husbands to poverty. Jesus and Francis. They're all saints.
Yeah. Yes.
Well, because we would be ostracized by society. I mean, there's, for example, there's also um the philosopher Deioenus who lived in poverty like
the cynic. Yes. The cynic. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. He lived in Athens in in a barrel or something for for his whole life.
A bathtub.
Or a bathtub. Yeah.
And Yeah, he was also really poor and everyone like looked down on him and like he was ostracized and Yeah.
But but why did he do it then? If he was ostracized, if he was humiliated, everyone laughed at him. Why did he do it?
Well, he didn't care. Like he he he felt happy, so that's what mattered.
But what's the source of his happiness? I
no it's like the Buddhist said you're if you don't want then if you don't desire then you're never going to have suffering because suffering is the point of desire.
Yeah. He Yeah. Yeah. He he just didn't want it. Yes.
Um so I would I would turn inwards to be honest. I would turn inwards. I would say this is a way for them to get closer to God because as we mentioned before like in Dante's own flight to paradise uh uh Deuterus told him to shed his physical conceptions, to shed his physical logic, to shed his worldly veins. And only when we are pure in spirit can we reach the heavens. Now suicide is not a thing in Catholicism.
So the closest we can get to a state of being pure in spirit is by getting rid of all our property and having only this body left.
Okay. Right. I Yes, I understand that. But I'm saying like why is it hard to just do that? Why?
Why do you not want to give up your p
62:40property and your wealth? Anyone? Anyone else? Let's let's have more part participation. Okay.
Yes.
We don't know actually what it will be like if we haven't experienced it before. So what if we give everything away and then
Exactly. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. So we have one which is we are we will become socialize.
Okay. Humiliation. It's public humiliation. Okay. Everyone's going to laugh at us unless you like diagnose and you just don't care.
Okay. But that's pretty rare. Uh second is uh so so could you repeat?
It's that if we haven't experienced it before, we don't know what it would be like. So what if I give everything away and then I'm actually miserable.
So these are the two things, right? Ego and fear. Ego is you want to stand above the people around you. Fear is you don't truly know yourself. You're afraid.
Okay. So these are the two major reasons the ego and the fear.
Uh yes I
mean sometimes you also have like responsibility about raising a family or caring about like your family. So that could be a reason like besides your ego you need to care for others also.
Yeah. Exactly right. If you have a family you can't take a vow of poverty. You have to feed them as well. So poverty means complete social isolation.
Right? It means you can't get married. It means you can't have kids. So it is an act of tremendous sacrifice. Good.
Thank you. Anyone else? Yes.
So I think that you know when you have like materialistic uh goals, it kind of motivates you sometimes. So um for example, if there's like a test and my mom promises me like a new iPhone 17 Pro, like I would definitely like work harder for that. So, I just think that for like a lot of people, it's very hard to let go of like their materialistic desires because then they would feel like my life is so devoid of meaning. And I think that
64:41they're scared of that.
Yeah. So, what what you're saying is um short-term gratification versus long-term reward, right? Maybe if you embrace a life of poverty, you go to heaven and that's great, but in the short term, you're better off just being rich, right? So, good. Yes.
Anyone else? Yes.
No. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. You you Yes.
Oh, I think uh you know in ancient times uh in time of um Danty uh wealth means physical possessions uh titles or uh or real estate and all this carries um tremendous um responsibilities for the person who possess them because and this leads to um a burdensome life. And secondly uh and secondly uh uh just going back to the text. I think uh when uh uh the franciscan uh and the arenas the Dominican uh they uh praise the other and uh criticize themselves. uh there might be a a new interpretation which I think uh might be interesting which uh you know if we uh uh if they what what if these two criticize uh themselves because uh they do not have uh equal wealth and equal knowledge. If uh there is the Chinese seeing you know your your wealth is only yours if your knowledge deser deserve it.
Uh so it means that Uh if your wealth is equal to your knowledge, maybe it's a good thing. Uh if the wealth goes to a person who has great knowledge and great capacity to distribute the wealth and use the wealth in a wise way, not for them for his
66:42family but also to for society, I think it might be a good thing.
Okay. So that's a very interesting comment. Um but have we had an instance where a truly wise man also had tremendous wealth. Maybe Solomon. Okay.
So, so so but I mean there are examples but historically we've we've had more cases where you can either choose wealth or wisdom, right? The classic example of course is Socrates. A man who who was basically poor all his life. Um in fact his wife made all the money in the family. Okay.
He had a family. He had kids, but the wife had to raise the kids because he didn't take money for his teachings. He just went around and taught for free. Uh he was engaged in in wisdom. Okay.
Uh any more questions or comments before we move on?
Yeah. Maybe because the you know uh people who just live in ancient time they sometime believe in God believe they are stoism maybe but you know the world is being regulated by the system right the system is for rich for rich people the people who have money it means that they have right to talk and they have right to do whatever they want. So maybe just because the the social system just want people to be rich. If you can be rich then you'll be one of us. But if if you do not you have your own wisdom then I'm sorry I won't give you the right I won't give you the money.
Maybe that's the problem.
Okay that's an interesting point. Okay this is certainly true for our world where all that matters is money. Money moves around the world. But this is not true actually in medieval Europe. Okay.
Um medieval Europe. Yes there's hypocrisy where the Catholic Church is filthy rich. They own a third of all the land in Europe. That is true. But but what is taught what people believe is that money is the root of all evil.
So the money doesn't matter. What matters
68:43is salvation. What matters is going to heaven. Okay. Okay. Yes.
Is it kind of gaslighting that the Cath Cath Catholic Church is said that they owns like most of the land but they say money is the root of evil but meanwhile they have all the money and can do whatever they want.
Okay. And so what would you prefer? They own all the property and they tell everyone, "You're nothing. I'm everything. You guys are poor.
You guys are going to hell." Would you prefer that?
Um, no.
Okay.
I would rather be deceived.
Yeah.
I'm interested about the charitable pro concept of all this. Like, uh, I know this is not the modern age. Modern age, you have to pay a lot of taxes and the taxes go towards, uh, public works and you can donate to charity and you have all these things going on. Um but in the middle ages wealth was pretty stagnant right however there are some few charitable endeavors by believers like there's this custom of almsgiving by rich ladies and there's also the Catholic church and the monasteries and they provide sanctuary to criminals and they provide schooling so like is that a type of charitable outreach that would not be possible had they not been so organized and So rich.
Yeah. So charity is one of the chief Christian virtues, right? So we say faith, love, and hope, but back then it was faith, hope, and charity. So if you're a rich person, you were obligated to share your wealth with the people around you. Okay?
Um, and guys, I it's it's hard to imagine this, but back then, no one really cared how rich you were. It was not a big thing, okay? Um it was a source of a lot of corruption but for most people they didn't really care. Uh at the elite politics it did matter but for most people it did not matter. Okay we live in a world that is money obsessed.
It is crazy
70:43um how we just love money. We think that money is a source of all good in this world. For whatever reason we worship this fake trillionaire Ellen Musk. The guy's a fake trillionaire. Okay.
All the money he has is just made up. it doesn't really exist and we worship him. Okay, so anyone else from any other time in human history comes to our day and everyone's just like you guys are the most superstitious people in the world. Okay, you guys worship this fake god money and you center your entire life around it. You guys are superstitious.
You guys are ignorant. You guys are backwards. Okay, I guarantee you anyone who comes from the past to today will be appalled by the way we live our lives. All right. Okay.
So having established the fact that is ego and fear that prevents us from truly understanding God. Okay. Um this raises the question of how then can we overcome the ego and the fear. Right? That's a question.
Okay. Okay, this is a central question if we are to save humanity or if Dante is going to reimagine humanity. Okay, keep this in the back of your mind. How do you overcome ego and fear? I've already given you the answer.
Faith, hope, and love. But let's examine what this really means. Okay. All right. So, uh can you continue uh Carol, please?
Verse 88. Nor did he lower his eyes in shame because he was the son of Petro Benardon. Nor for the scorn and wonder he aroused, but like a sovereign he disclosed in full to innocent the sternness of his rule. From him he had the first seal of his order. And after many of the poor had followed Francis whose wondrous life was better sung by
72:43glory's choir and the imperion the sacred purpose of this chief of ch she shepherds was then encircled with the second crown by the eternal spirit through Anorius and after in his thirst for martyrdom within the presence of the hotty sultan he preached of Christ and those who followed him. Okay. So, Francis is being uh described as exemplar of faith, hope and love. Why? Because not only did he embrace poverty, but he went to the Islamic world and tried to convert the sultan.
Okay, that is the exemplar model of faith, hope, and love. Okay, does that make sense? Okay, keep this image in the back of your mind. This man who's a Christian from this backward place called Europe. He goes to probably the wealthiest place in the world.
He tries to convince the Sultan that, hey, you're wrong. You're worshiping the wrong god. And let me tell you why. Okay. Uh, keep on going.
Verse 103. But finding hearers who were too unripe to be converted, he not wasting time, returned to harvest the Italian fields. There on the naked crack between Ardo and to bear, he received the final seal for from Christ. And this his limbs bore for two years. When he who destined Francis to such goodness was pleased to draw him up to the reward that he had won through his humility, then to his brothers as to rightful heirs, Francis commended his most precious lady, and he ba them to love her faithfully.
Okay. So, so, okay. So, you guys understand what's happening, right? Francis will die. He'll go to heaven to
74:44to receive his just reward. He tells his brothers, his entire followers to be loyal to his wife. Right? My wife is poverty. Now that I'm gone, my only request, my last will testament is for you to be loyal to take care of my wife who's given me everything in this world and who's helped me to ascend to heaven.
So, of course, what do they do? What do they do? Obviously, uh yes,
they they're not disloyal. They abandon poverty.
And and and and by how if you if you are this brotherhood, the Francis order, what's the easiest way for you to abandon poverty?
Someone who are rich. No, because they're all celibate, right? This is Francesca order. So, they're supposed to marry poverty and so what do they do? And and and and it's a loophole, right?
They they're not going to like, you know what, screw this. Uh we're going to marry rich people. Okay. But there's a loophole. What what's what is the loophole?
Oh, the loophole is actually really famous. So like uh it used to be that during the time when Francis was alive when people give the Franciscan order a town uh a house in town to live in. And Francis just climbed up the roof and started tearing off the shingles. And the town was like stop. And Francis was like, "No, you're giving us a house.
We can't have that. Even if we share it, we can't have that." And so the town told Francis, "Okay, I guess we're lending you the house." And Francis begrudgedly agreed. So after he died, this kind of went overboard like the Franciscans were borrowing things left and right, left and right and eventually they became the like the other orders. But all of their things are technically borrowed.
76:45Okay. Well, they basically own property. Okay. So let me ask you this question. Why were people giving them property?
So did they say something like give us um property and then you can perhaps ascend to heaven or like
the didn't say this. The friends would never ever say this. Okay. They would never say if you make me rich I'll get I'll make you go to heaven. Okay.
That's not what happened.
Like the way to our just cause.
No, they would never they would never say that for what happened. Uh yes. Yes. You go first and then you. Okay.
Yeah. You should be poor. So So I'll I'll take your property from you.
No, they would never ever do that. Okay. They would never do that. What happened?
They were actually inspirational. They were really inspirational. Like rich people, some people wanted to be Franciscans, but they could feel like they couldn't cut off their material ties entirely. So, they give the Franciscans on property.
Exactly. Do you understand? It's a bribe, guys. Okay. If I'm rich, I have a billion dollars and these guys are going to heaven because they're poor.
What what I'm going to do? I'm gonna bribe these guys. Says, "Hey, I'll give you half a mill. I'll give you like half a billion dollars. I'll give you half my wealth." Okay?
I still keep a half a billion. You get to have good and we all go to heaven, guys. What a great deal. You understand? That's what happened.
They did not intentionally try to become rich, but they were forced to become rich because everyone wanted to go to heaven. Okay, the idea here is that money doesn't really matter. It's salvation that matters. They have the keys to heaven. Everyone's like, "How much can I pay for these keys?" And for is like no that's not how this works guys okay this is not how it works but if you are not Francis and you're just this normal human being and and people offering you like billions and billions of dollars you it's hard for you to refuse okay and that's and that's what happened okay doesn't make sense guys okay the
78:46fist would never ever say give me money and you go to heaven that's what the pope did okay but not the Franciscans.
All right. Yes.
I think the relationship between the Franciscans and the Pope is really interesting. On one hand, Francis was a devout Catholic and he will never contradict the Pope. In fact, he was told by Catholic Central to maybe tone the richest bad thing down a little bit because you're making us look bad. And Francis was like, "Okay." Also uh even though Francis is widely known as a peacemaker uh during the crusades he did not speak up against the crusades and he approved the crusades tacitly because after all he was affiliated with the church.
Okay. Yeah. So this is a very important point. Okay. So what's happening in this in this time is that there are a lot of people who are opposed to the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church is filthy rich and they were like wait a minute here Jesus was poor.
He said, "Don't be rich." Um, and you guys are filthy rich, okay? And they were like ostentatious about it, like, you know, just go to go to Rome, man. Okay. Go to the Vatican. It's the wealthiest place in the world.
Um, so there's all this criticism and a way for the Catholic Church to deal with this criticism is to sponsor defenses in order, right? as a way to co-opt these people and show you see there are people in the church who are dedicated to poverty. So the Franciscans were useful political pawn uh for the church to maintain legitimacy. Okay. Right.
So thank you for that. All right. Let's keep on going. Verse 115. and when returning to its kingdom, his bright soul wanted to set forth from her bosom it for its body asked no other buyer.
Consider now that man who was a colleague worthy of Francis with him in
80:47high seas he kept the bark of Peter on true course. Such was our patriarch. Thus,
uh he's referring to Paul by the way. Okay, Paul. Keep on going.
Such was our patriarch. Thus you can see that those who follow him as he commands, as cargo carry worthy merchandise. But now his flock is grown so greedy for new nourishment that it must wander far in search of strange and distant grazing lands. And as his sheep, remote and vagabond, stray farther from his side, at their return into the fold, their lack of milk is greater. Though there are some indeed who, fearing harm, stay near the shepherd, they are few in number, to call them would require little cloth.
Now if my words are not too dim and distant, if you have listened carefully to them, if you can call to mind what has been said, then part of what you wish to know is answered. For you will see the splinters on the plant and see what my correction meant. Where One may fatten well if one does not stray off.
Okay. All right. So um this creates a central dilemma. Okay. These are people the Franciscans who have the most noble purpose.
Okay. To spread the message of Jesus to bring hope and salvation to the poorest people to embrace poverty. These are the best Catholics. But there are two central issues. The first is their ego and their fear, right?
The fact that to truly embrace poverty the way that Francis did, you have to abandon society. And no one wants to do that, right? It's a social death. And you're afraid of what it means to be poor. So the ego and the fear.
But another issue is that once you truly embrace poverty and you are seen
82:47as holy, the entire world wants to co-opt you. They want to bribe you. They want to give you money so that they can share in your holiness. And over time that accumulates and you just become just as corrupt as everyone else. Okay.
So these are the two central dilemmas and the question then is how do you overcome this situation? How do you how can you actually bring salvation to humanity if the if there are these constraints? Okay. One is our own psychological constraint of ego and fear. Another is just the social constraint.
Okay. How how anything that's valuable people will try to buy out. Okay. Do you understand the dilemma? Right.
Okay. And this is the situation that Dante is facing in medieval Europe in the year 1300 to 1321 when he's writing the divine comedy. Okay. Any questions before we move on? Okay.
All right. Let's move on to count 12, please. Okay. And now and now we are going to meet who's going to talk about the Dominican order and then he's going to criticize the Franciscan order. Okay.
No, sorry. No, no. He's he's going to praise the the Dominican order and criticize the Franciscan order. Okay. Oh, wait.
Sorry. Um, something that I forgot to mention is that um, the reason so for say Thomas Aquaintus, the reason why he thinks that the uh, Dominican order became corrupt is eventually they had too much power. Right? The Dominican order are the Jesuits of the time. They're committed to learning.
They are committed to uh economic inquiry but the Catholic Church uses them as inquisitors
84:48to maintain orthodoxy throughout the um throughout Europe. Okay. So they spread far and wide and accumulate towards power and that ultimately corrupts them. Does that make sense guys? Okay.
All right. Uh now now we talk about the Dominicans. Okay.
KTO 12. No sooner had the blessed flame begun to speak its final word than the millstone of holy lights began to turn, but it was not yet done with one full revolution before another ring surrounded it. And motion match with motion, song with song. A song that sung by those sweet instruments surpasses so our muses and our sirens as first light does the light that is reflected. Just as concentric, like in color, two rainbows will curve their way through a thin cloud when Juno has commanded her handmmaid.
The outer rainbow echoing the inner, much like the voice of one, the wandering nymph whose love consumed as sun consumes the mist. And those two bows, let people hear foretell, by reason of the pact God made with Noah, that flood will never strike the world again. So the two garlands of those everlasting roses circled around us and so did the outer circle mime the inner ring when dance and jubilation festival of song and flame that answered flame of light with light of gladness and benevolence in some s in one same instant with one will fell still just as the eyes when moved by their desire can only close and open in accord than from the heart of one of the lights. There came a voice and as I turned toward it I seemed a needle turning to the pole star and it began. The love that makes me fair draws me to speak about the other leader because of whom my own was so praised here.
Where one is it is right to introduce the other. Side by side
86:50they fought. So may they share in glory and together gleam. Christ's army whose rearming cost so dearly was slow uncertain of itself and scanty behind its enzyme when the emperor who rules forever helped his ranks in danger only out of his grace and not their merits and as was said he then sustained his bride providing her with two who could revive a scraggling people champions who would by doing and by preaching bring new life.
Okay. All right. So again, the brightest Catholic Church and the two champions are Francis and Dominic. Okay, keep on going. Verse 46.
In that part of the west where gentle seappir rises to open those new leaves in which Europe appears reclothed not far from where behind the waves that beat upon the coast the sun grown weary from its lengthy course at times conceals itself from all men's eyes. Therea blessed by fortune sits under the aeges of the mighty shield on which the lion loses and prevails. Within its walls were born the loving vassel of Christian faith, the holy athlete, one kind to his own and harsh to enemies. No sooner was his mind created than it was so full of living force that it still in his mother's womb made her prophetic. Then at the sacred font where faith and he brought mutual salvation as their dowy, the rights of their espouso was were complete.
Okay. So, so the idea here is that Francis married poverty. Dominic will marry faith. Okay. All right.
Keep on going. Verse 64. The lady who had given the
88:50ascent from for him saw in a dream astonishing fruit that would spring from him and from his heirs, and that his name might echo what he was. A spirit moved from here to have him called by the possessive of the one by whom he was possessed completely. Dominic became his name. I speak of him as one whom Christ chose as the worker in his garden. He seemed the fitting messenger and servant of Christ.
The very first love that he showed was the first injunction Christ had given. His nurse would often find him on the ground alert and silent in a way that said, "It is for this that I have come. Truly his father was Feliche and his mo mother mother Jovana if her name interpreted is in accord with what has been asserted not for the world but for which men now travail along to Deo's way or Aians but through his love of the true mana he became in a brief time so great a teacher that he began to oversee the vineyard that withers when neglected by its keeper. And from the seat that once was kinder to the righteous poor and now has gone astray, not in itself, but in its occupant. He did not ask to offer two or three for six, nor for vacant benefits, nor decimus qualum dei, but pleaded for the right to fight against the airing world to serve the seed from which there grew the 420 plants that ring you.
Okay. All right. So, okay. So, let's go into the history of the Dominicans. Dominicans were founded for a very specific purpose.
So, um at this time in Europe, there's a major threat to the Catholic Church and it's called the Cathars. Okay, the Cathars. The Cathars.
90:56The Cathars. Okay. Um and to deal with the Cathars and they are in southern France in a place called Alba. The Catholic church lot of something called the Alban the Albanian crusade. Okay.
The idea is that these Catholic Cathars are what we today call Gnostics. What are Gnostics? Gnostics is are people who believe in the ideas that Dante believes. Okay. That we have a direct connection to God.
uh who is the monad the source and that this material world doesn't really matter. What matters is our spiritual life and these cathars are impossible to deal with because they're not afraid to die. In fact they welcome death right before the Catholic Church is like if you don't obey us we'll burn you at the stake and the and the convers are like fine I'm happy to burn at the stake. Okay. So the uh Catholic Church launches these crusades against the Cathars who are who are um uh in the southern France and the Cathars are not afraid to die and they are so holy and they're so inspirational that the community who are by the way majority Catholic they rally behind the Cathars and protect the carers right to um believe in what in what they believe.
Okay. Um the cath the Catholics are so inspirational that in one famous instance when the Catholic army the crusaders has basically um surrounded a fortress. Okay. And again what's really important to understand is that the majority of people fighting for the cathars are themselves Catholic. And so what happens is this fortress is is about to fall.
And the um commander of the Catholic army says
92:57to the Cathars, "We only want you guys, the Catholic people who are protecting you. We'll let them live." And the Catholic people protecting the Cathars said fine we will convert okay we will become Cathars ourselves we will die with you okay so that's how inspirational they were so the Catholic church is like what are we going to do okay because yes we possibly step them out, but this is embarrassing for us and their example is going to possibly overthrow us. So they create the Dominican order in order to deal with the Cathar threat, the the albian crusade. And the idea is that you cannot kill these people. What you do is you re-educate these people.
Okay? So rather than use the sword, they use the pen. So the do the the ordered would go into a village and there's only about like 1% who are cathars, right? But you just figure out who they are and they would interrogate everyone. And quite honestly, that worked because in inter in interrogation, you could figure out who the Cathars were because there were inconsistencies in the stories, right?
And then once you isolate them, then you could then re-educate them. And that and that's the idea behind the Dominican order. And as you can imagine, the Dominicans fought themselves. They were warriors for Christ. That their mission was not to kill people.
Their mission was to show them the error of their thinking. Okay? Reed-ducation, enlightenment. And through that, the Catholic Church
94:58was able to step out the Cathol threat. Does that make sense, guys? Okay, any questions about that? Okay, let's let's keep on going. Verse 97.
Then he with both his learning and his zeal, and with his apostolic office, like a torrent hurdled from a mountain source, coursed, and his impetus with greatest force, struck where the thickets of the heretics offered the most resistance. And from him there sprang the streams with which the Catholic garden has found abundant watering, so that its saplings have more life, more green. If such was one wheel of the chariot in which the holy church in her defense taking the field defeated enemies within, then you must see the excellence of him, the other wheel whom Thomas praised so graciously before I made my entry. And yet the track traced by the outer rim of that wheel is abandoned now, as in a cask of wine, when crust gives way to mold. His family, which once advanced with steps that followed his footprints, has now turned back.
Its forward foot now seeks the foot that lags. And soon we are to see at harvest time the poor grain gathered where the tears will be denied a place within the bin and weep. I do admit that if one were to search our volume leaf by leaf, he might still read one page with I am as I always was. But those of Aquasparta or Casale who read our rule are either given to escape in it or making it too strict. I am the living light of Bonavour of Banora in high offices.
I always put the left hand interests last.
Okay. The left hand interest what what he's saying is that the Catholic Church
96:59is very corrupt. They are always doing left-hand interests. Okay. The left hand just means what whatever is sinister. Um, and I am the most pure.
I am the most just official. Okay, keep keep on going. Verse 130. Illuminatine are here. They were among the first unshaw poor brothers to wear the cord becoming friends of God.
Hugh of St. Victor 2 is here with them. Peter of Spain who with his 12 books glows on earth below and Peter book devourer. Nathan the prophet Anom and Chrysum the metrop metropolitan and that donadus who dame to deal with that art which comes first. Ravenous 2 in here and at my side shines the Calabrian Abbott Jacian who had the gift of the prophetic the prophetic spirit.
To this my praise of such a paladin, the glowing courtesy and the discerning language of Thomas urged me on and stirred with me the souls that form this company.
Okay. All right. So, okay. So again to summarize we've we learned about the Francis order and we learn about the Dominican order. They both started out as just good and righteous.
Over time both will become corrupt. Okay. The Franciscans become corrupt because people want to give them property. Okay. The Dominicans become corrupt because they have too much power.
Okay. They have power of life. They have the power of life and death over people and they spread throughout Europe in order to be the army of the Catholic Church. Okay. So you can imagine it is it's a similar situation where the rich are bribing them in order to curry favor with them.
Okay. To settle local scores to gain a place in heaven to influence um internal politics. Okay. All right. Uh yes.
99:01So in in this um in this section we see that they see that the Dominicans are in Paradiso. But if the Dominicans were converting the Cathars, what what is Dante's actually thought of the Cathars? Does he think they were good or bad? Okay. So, we will never know what Dante thought of the Cathars.
Okay. Um he knows what happened, but he probably believes that they were a heretical sect because that was the official um um doctrine. Okay. And remember at this time in history, Donnie has much greater problems to deal with. Okay.
The fact that brother's killing brother, the fact that the Catholic Church is so corrupt, those are those are his concerns. Does that make sense? Uh yes.
I've noticed that this is something that Dante likes to do. Like he like he likes to roll call people. Like uh I remember uh like reading about uh Dante roll calling people in hell. Like he condemned a bunch of people who are still alive to hell. And there's a place in hell for them.
And basically he's making a goody list and bad list here. Can I say it like that?
Yes. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Right.
Um this is a way for him to try to structure the world. Um and also to make sense of what's going on in the world. Okay. Basically from his perspective um he has a power to judge people. So those that are doing wrong he can put in hell.
those that he knows that did good. For example, his patrons, he puts into heaven. Okay. All right. Um, okay.
Another thing that I want to talk about is we assume that whatever he writes is intentional, meaning it's a conscious decision on his part to frame the way things are. Okay.
101:02But a lot of poetry is subconscious because you are channeling the divine. Does that make sense? So we can objectively as critics, as readers, make some historical parallels between what he's saying and we know. Okay. But it could be possible that um his understanding of the history is different from our understanding of the history.
It's also possible that he really didn't know about the Kthars because they were suppressed. Okay, we know about the Kthars because of our own research. So, does that make sense to you guys? All right, we're assuming that Dante knows what he's actually saying, but it may not. It may just be complete inspiration.
And we as critics are able to look back and said, "Oh, I see the connection here, but he may not be conscious of this information." Okay? Does that make sense? All right. So, so that's why it's impossible to say what is his intention because he himself may not know what his intention is. He's just a poet.
He is a prophet for God. He's just speaking what he believes to be true even though he himself may not know actually what he's saying. Okay. Yes.
Do we have any like Gustavski wrote to his brother all the time and he's like this is what I'm thinking. Is there any letters that exist of Dante at all?
Um yeah. So there are lots of documents. Um so Dante was a published poet before Divine Comedy. Divine Comedy is his last act, but he's written also many different different works as well. And you know, it's really strange because none of his works received the same acclaim as Divine Comedy, but he was sure he was the greatest poet in the world.
And he was sure that in his lifetime he'd be recognized as the
103:03greatest poet in uh the world. Excuse me. Um well what happens when we read the inferno what what's happening is that he places himself in with the same status as Virgil and the other great Latin epic poets. Okay. So already he's conceived himself as a legendary poet even though he's not that famous at this point.
Even though he's not recognized as the greatest poet at this at this time, he is confident that that he will be recognized in his lifetime. It doesn't work out that way. He'll die after he finishes Divine Comedy and people will recognize Divine Comedy as a work of genius after he dies, but not during his lifetime. Okay. Um All right.
Uh sorry, I have a question. Uh I just uh I just question uh you know, do you think that you really think that he's a point? because you know unless the people paid money for for him to be a point or it just people right now we thought that he he was point so what I mean is that what a purpose of of his writing if there's nobody who paid money for for for him to do that then there must be some purpose for himself to to write down such long poem you know we can call it masterpiece or he can just write by themselves just do not worry or care about the readers is that what you mean Um okay uh let let me let me ask you a question. Has there been anyone in history who has been a great poet who has chosen to be a great poet? You are not you don't choose to be a poet.
You don't choose to be a prophet. You are chosen by God. Okay. And God channels his power through you. And how do we how do people know that this is a great poet?
How do we how how do we know?
105:05Excuse me.
By reading their work.
Yeah, but but so we we can read a lot of work, but how do we know what's what's great and what's not?
If if the work persists throughout the course of history, like over time, if it survives.
Yeah. But but but how does it survive over time? I guess people have to like maintain it, right?
Cycler, you know, he No, no, no. I think we just know
if if the work is is great, we just know the work is great. Like it's
Yeah, but but how do we know?
We just know it.
No, but I mean why? How?
Like the contents have been proven by time.
This is not a hard question. Okay. Yes.
It resonates with our experience. And and what do we call this? truth and beauty, right? You understand? Like if people read the icon and they think, "Oh my god, it made me cry.
Oh my god, that's so beautiful." No one would bother to keep it around, right? It's truth in beauty that makes Divine Comedy a great work of poetry. It's It's no difference from like why do you go to a concert and pay 50 bucks or I I I've never been to a concert. I don't know how much they cost, okay? But I know you're sitting around with 10,000 people.
It's a pain in the ass. But why are you doing this? Because a singer, whoever he or she is, moves you to tears. Because it resonates with you. Do you understand?
Okay. We are looking at the line comedy from an intellectual analytical perspective. But it's able to be so powerful because first and foremost, it resonates because it speaks beauty and truth. Do you understand? And beauty and truth can only come from God.
Try to do you understand? Okay. Only a human being by channeling God can create such truth and beauty in the world. And only a person can do this. If
107:06you get two people to try to do this, it won't work. Okay? Try it. Try to get two people to write a poem together. It sucks.
It has to be a person channeling the monad, the source. And then you know it's beautiful because everyone who reads it is moved to tears because it's beautiful, right? No different from a painting. Why do we have um why do we celebrate certain paintings? Because you're more beautiful than others.
Okay, this is not a random thing. Okay, does that make sense? Okay, any more questions before we move on? Okay. So, let's go to KTO 17.
Okay. And um we don't we also don't have time to read Kel 17, but I but but I will introduce some basic ideas for Kel 17 and then we will go into Kel 17. Um and so Dante has a series of questions that he must resolve before he can meet God. Okay, he is going to meet God. That is the purpose of divine comedy is a pilgrim's journey into um the heart of the universe, the soul of the universe.
And he is full of ego and his fear full of fear. Okay, the ego is like I'm the greatest poet in the world. Why doesn't people recognize that I'm the greatest poet in the world? The fear is I've been exiled from Florence and um where does my life go from from here? I have a family.
How can I feed my family? I have no source of income because the people in Florence who exile me have stolen everything from me. Okay? I got nothing in this world. And so I know my mission is to write the divine comedy.
I know my heart. That's
109:06what my mission is. But the reality around me is like I'm in exile. I have kids. I have no property. What am I going to do now?
Also, I look around the world. I look around the world and I start out with the Gves and we defeat the Gil Gilibbeans, but the G fought amongst themselves. So what's the hope for this world if all we do is just fight for power? I also think about the Franciscans and the Dominicans and they start out great but then they became everyone like everyone else. Okay.
So what is the point of my existence? Why am I writing Divine Comedy? Is there any hope for humanity? Is there any hope for us? Okay.
So, what's going to happen is that Dante must reserve these fears, these doubts before he can actually meet God. Because if you're coming to meet God from a place of ego and fear, you're not going to meet God. Okay? You're just not. You won't see God.
So, the way he does this is that he will in heaven meet his ancestor or grandfather. I can't actually remember the if it's great grandfather or great-grandfather, but but but it's it's an ancestor. Okay. What the answer is going to do is reassure him by telling him the history of his family, the lineage, okay? Where they came from, all the great deeds that the family has done throughout the course of history.
And then what the grandfather's going to do is give Dante the prophecy. Okay. Um where your life is going to go. Why would this be reassuring to Dante?
111:07Why would knowing your family history be reassuring to Dante? You You are in You are at a stage in your life when all hope is broken. You're in exile. You're poor. But hearing the your history, the family your family history where you came from does give you hope.
Why? I guess
because it gives you something to hold on to. Like they can take away everything you own in this world, but your connection to your ancestors and the great deeds of your ancestors, they will never go away. They cannot take that away.
Yeah. Okay. So, what this is saying is that you'll be remembered for your actions. Okay. Just as your the actions of your father were remembered, just as the actions of your grandfather remembered.
Okay? That's what you will leave to the world. Not your wealth, not your achievements, but your actions. Okay? Your actions will be celebrated, your actions will be remembered.
Anyone else? Why would this what will this matter?
Uh also it gives a sense of cycle where like even if times are bad then like just with time it gets better.
Yeah. So there's a plan in motion, right?
What so by by saying like you know this is what your grandfather did, this is your father did, you're you're saying that there is a plan and this is all part of your destiny. Dante, you came to this point because it was planned from the beginning and your family was just enacting out the plan and now you have come to this point and you must do your part as well. Okay. And that is very reassuring I would think. Right.
What? Why else?
Yes.
So, I'm just going to add on to that and say that I think at least I think during this time like ancestry was um seen as to be like very important and like your ancestors were seen uh to be like much wiser than you were. So I think that just um Dante by listening to his
113:09ancestors reassure him like he felt that yeah I'm reassured because I trust these people a lot and there they definitely know more than me.
Yeah. Exactly. Okay. That's a really good point. Okay.
So yes, the ancestors are giving you support. Yes. Yes.
And by um by looking at their um achievement, their endeavors, you can also see what they've yet to achieve. And maybe that's And that's how you connect the dots. That's how you realize so this is the part that I would do that they didn't manage to
yes
achieve. You're part of a family and you have a responsibility to do your part, right? You have to add to us. So yes, your divine comedy and you'll probably die afterwards. You won't achieve any fame, but your achievement will add to our family legacy, right?
That's your responsibility. So what's happening is that just the idea that you're part of a family legacy, it's removing the ego and fear from him, right? Okay. It's cleansing him. Any any other comments or thoughts?
Okay. So when we come back from the break, we're going to read not the family history. It's a bit long, but we'll read the prophecy that the grandfather tells Dante. Okay. And so something to keep in mind is it's really complicated.
Okay. Uh but but I want you to keep this in mind. So Dante is dies in 1321. Okay. He actually finished his divine comedy in 1321.
What's interesting is that the divine comedy is set in the year 1300, Easter Sunday. Okay, he tells us this in the infernal. Okay, so in other words, he already has the benefit of hindsight. He already knows what's going to happen to him. Okay, but and but he
115:09sets his character in the year 1300 and then his grandfather will tell Dante what will happen in the year 1302. Okay, 1302 is when Don is exiled from Florence and this marks a u traumatic event in his life. Okay, so think think about this where Don is writing in 1321. He already knows what's already happened but he set his character in the year 1300 so that his grandfather can tell him what will happen two years from now. Okay, two years from from now.
Okay. And and and and that is the setting for uh candle 17 which we'll read after the break. Any questions guys? Yes. Uh you said that to connect with God you need to let go of fear and ego but then how can he do so in heaven which is like already with God right?
But he's not in heaven.
Didn't you say that he let go of fear uh by talking with his ancestors?
Right. Okay. So um Okay. So so to to understand this is that this is a uh literary conceit. Okay.
The way he lets go of his ego and fear is by writing Divine Comedy, right? And in Divine Comedy um the scene that he sets to help us appreciate how he's able to let go of his ego and fear is the meeting with his grandfather in heaven. Does does that make sense?
Okay.
So that means in the beginning of the writing he's not quite yet like enlightenment, right? Like to a state of enlightenment.
That's right. Okay. That that's a really that's a really important thing to appreciate where maybe from an early age he's able to to conceive the divine harmony. Okay. But the very process of writing it is also uh revelatory and
117:09enlightening. Do you understand? All right. Um, and so he will change as a person through the process of reading Divine Comedy. The same thing as reading Divine Comedy where I'm sure like by reading it, you yourself are going through a spiritual and emotional alchemy, right?
You're thinking much more deeply about who you are. You're thinking much more deeply about your relationship with the world. And maybe your heart is opening up. Well, it's the same thing. Well, it's obviously the same if you write the thing, right?
Because what's happening is that the poetry is a revelation from God. Okay? It is you are co-creating the process, but what you're really doing is you're just a scribe for God. Right? Does that make sense, guys?
All right. Okay. So, we'll take a break. We'll come back at one o'clock. Okay.
All right. Thanks, guys. Um, are we good or We're I'm just waiting for the signal from the booth. Let's get started.
Okay. All right guys, uh we are live. Um first of all, I want to thank so much Carol and her team. Um there are some comments online talking about the sound quality and the um video resolution quality and Carol and her team worked really hard yesterday and now it's and now a new version is uploaded complete
119:10with better sound and video quality. So thank you so much Carol and and your team for your self selfless dedication to promoting Dante in the world. Okay. So what what I will do now is discuss the central conflict which is how does Dante reconcile his divine mission which is to be the prophet poet for the monad with the fact that his life really really sucks. Um in 1302 he was exiled from his hometown of Florence where he's been his family has been there for generations.
Uh he loves the place. um he loses everything. He loses all his property, all all his wealth because of his exile. And now he's just fooling around. Okay.
So, how does he reconcile this pain, this agony, this suffering with his larger divine mission? And here what he's going to do is he's going to uh re-imagine um Virgil the Iniad. Okay. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to summarize for you the plot of the uh Iniad. We should read it together.
We don't have time, but um for for the sake of the conversation today, I'm just going to give you a brief summary of the um Iniad. Okay. So, this is Virgil and for about a thousand years, this is the greatest epic poem of the Western tradition. And if you're an educated person, you have to read it. It is the Bible.
Okay? is actually much more important than the Bible. So the so the main character is Inas and Inas is a prince of Troy and like Dante he loves Troy. They've been his family has been there for generations. It is the greatest city in the world.
Unfortunately the Greeks have to come and destroy it. Okay. And um Inas has to
121:12watch his city being destroyed by the Greeks. This is Trojan War of course. They sneak in because of the Trojan horse and Inas wants to die trying to save uh Troy. But his mother um Venus appears before him and says, "No, Inias, you have a higher mission. You have a higher calling.
you, your son, will be destined to found the greatest empire in the world called Rome. Okay? Rome will be the new Troy. Troy must be destroyed in order for Rome to rise and Rome will be the end of history. It will be the greatest empire in all of human history.
So, Inis is like fine, okay? Because he's been ordered by the gods. And so he and his family and the followers, they get on ships and they sail to Italy where they're supposed to found the new empire of Rome. They get shipwrecked and uh they end up in Carthage. And in Carthage, Inas there falls in love with the queen Ditto.
And Inias is really really happy in Carthage. And Carthage is this new city that's being built. And um Inas sees his life being here. The gods get angry at him and said, "Inas, you idiot. We told you to Italy, not Carthage.
Get your ass moving." So any is like fine, whatever. So he keeps on moving, but now he's like really, really angry because his home Troy was destroyed and then he falls in love with Ditto in Carthage and the and the gods kick him out. Okay, so he's really confused. So what he does is he goes into the underworld where he meets his father Inius. Okay?
And his father just died because Inius is going to tell him why this is happening, what what the gods have planned for you.
123:12And when in his talks to inas what happens is that the prophecy becomes the history of Rome and Inis is told that when you go to Rome your son will found a new people the Romans. The Romans will slowly expand across the Italian peninsula. Then they will conquer Carthage and then conquer all the Mediterranean. they will become the greatest empire in human history. So it's it's basically just the same thing as what Justinian told us, right?
Um then you you have Julius Caesar will give rise to Augustus Caesar. And when this happens, when Rome becomes an empire, it is the end of history. Humanity will be saved. Um heaven will come to earth and peace will reign forever. The Pax Romana.
Okay. And this is why things had to happen the way they had they happened. Troy was destroyed for a reason to found Rome. Um Inias had to go on this long painful journey in order to to build the foundation stone for the greatest empire in human history. Okay.
And obviously when Inas hears this, he's like, "Yes, now I understand. Now I can fully commit to my mission." So he goes to Italy. um where he uh fights uh Churnis okay and then uh it ends with his victory and now Rome can be born okay so the INIAD it's basically the bible of the Roman Empire explains where Rome came from why Rome is the greatest empire in the world and where Rome is going okay does that make sense so we're going to take this uh plotline from the INAD and compare it to how Dante um rewrites this, okay? And you're going
125:13to see a massive contrast because here in the Iniad, the prophecy is one of triumph, one of glory, but in Dante's uh prophecy, it's completely different. Okay. So, this is KTO 17 and we're going to read um uh Dante's grandfather telling him what lies in store for him when he leaves heaven. He returns to the real world, what awaits him. Okay.
All right. Uh
okay.
Please read.
Like the one who still makes fathers wary of sons. When he heard when he had heard insinuations and he to be assured came to Clemen, such was I and such was I seen to be by Beatress and by the holy lamp that earlier had shifted place for me. Therefore my lady said to me, display the flame of your desire that it may be seen well stamped with your internal seal. Not that we need to know what you'd reveal, but that you learn the way that would disclose your thirst and you be quenched by what we pour. Oh my dear root, who since you rise so high, can see the point in which all times are present.
For just as earthly minds are able to see that two obtuse angles cannot be contained in a triangle, you can see contingent things before they come to be. While I was in the company of Virgil, both on the mountain that heals souls, and when descending to the dead world, what I heard about my future life were grievous words. Although against the blows of chance, I feel myself as firmly planted as a cube.
Okay. Stop. Okay. All right. So, what he's referring to is the fact that in inferno and in purgatory, Virgil was his guide.
And during this journey uh Dante met individuals who would give him glimpses into his future. Okay. And this
127:14is the final prophecy. Keep on going. Verse 25. Thus my desire would be appeased if I might know what fortune is approaching me. The arrow one foresees arrives more gently.
So did I speak to the same living light that spoke to me before as Beatus had wi wished or was my wish was now confessed. Not with the maze of words that used to snare the fools upon this earth before the lamb of God who takes away our sins was slain, but with words plain and unambiguous that loving father hidden yet revealed by his own smile replied. Contingency while not extending past the book in which your world of matter has been written and the eternal vision all depicted. But this does not imply necessity. Just as a ship that sails downstream is not determined by the eye that watches it.
And from that vision, just as from an Oregon that year receives a gentle harmony, what time prepares for you appears to me. Hippolitus was forced to leave his Athens because of his stepmother, faithless fierce, and so must you depart from Florence. Okay. So, Hippotus was um um the son of Thesius who uh was exiled um unjustly. So, the idea is that yes, Dante, unfortunately, when you go home, what will happen to you is that you'll be exiled from Florence unjustly.
Okay? They will do a terrible wrong to you, but there's nothing you can do about it. That's all part of the plan. Keep going.
Verse 49. This is willed already sought for soon to be accomplished by the one who plans and plots where every day Christ is both sold and bought.
129:14Okay. So, uh the man who will plan and plot is the pope. Okay. The pope is going to plot your exile and the removal of your faction from Florence so that you can never ever return. Okay, this is the pope.
He is corrupt. He buys and sells um salvation. Keep on going.
Verse 52. The blame as usual will be cried out against the injured party, but just vengeance will serve as witness to the truth that wields it. You shall leave everything you love most dearly. This is the arrow that the bow of exile shoots first. You are to know the bitter taste of others bread, how salt it is, and know how hard a path it is for one who goes descending and ascending others dares.
Okay. All right. So, this is the complete opposite of the vision, the prophecy in Iniad, right? Where Inis is told about the glory that awaits Rome. And here it's complete opposite where Donnie is told um yeah the only thing that awaits you is exile.
Uh you'll be blamed for the exile. You lose everything and you will depend on the mercy the generosity of others. In other words, you're going to be a beggar all your life, Dante. You'll be a beggar until the end of your life. Uh yes.
Could this be seen as drawing a parallel between himself and the experiences of uh that guy Anus I think his name is Anus from from Troy and the suffering of Christ like could he be drawing this comparison that he is suffering to bring about greatness later.
Um yeah that's exactly the parallel. So so you say two things okay yes clearly he is referencing uh Inias and his journey and the prophecy from the Inadan. Okay. because the Indian is basically his template to write the divine comedy. But you also point out that Jesus is not really mentioned in the divine comedy, guys, right?
He's
131:16referenced, but he's not mentioned direct. Well, he is mentioned directly, but he doesn't appear in Divine Comedy, right? And so, you can make the imaginative leap that Dante is really presenting himself as a Christ figure in the Divine Comedy. the one who must suffer, the one who must die in order to bring about salvation in the world. Okay, so so yeah, thank you for that.
Okay, any more questions, guys? All right, uh let's keep on going. Verse 61. And what will be most hard for you to bear will be the scheming senseless company that is to share your fall into this valley. Against you they will be insane, completely ungrateful and profane.
And yet soon after not you, but they will have their brows blood dread of their insensate acts. The proof will be in the effects and thus your honor will be best kept if your party is yourself. Your first refuge and your first inn shall be the courtesy of the great Lombard. He who on the latter bears the sacred bird.
Okay. So when Don is exiled, he's exiled with his political faction, right? The uh white Gves and obviously when their faction, they're angry about this. They want vengeance. So they're plotting how to get back and kill their enemies, the black Gves.
And what uh the grandfather is saying to Dante is do not partake in this politics. These people have gone insane with hatred and uh blood lust. Okay? They can only end up dead. You have to not only live in poverty.
Not only do you must you be a beggar, but you must abandon everyone you know in order for you to seek the true path. Okay? This is not just exile. It is also isolation. It doesn't make sense.
All
133:17right? But at the same time you will find generous patrons who will give you food and housing and that is your salvation. Uh yes
I think something else that he gives up is vengeance like uh I know that the urge to avenge yourself is extremely strong and it will be hard given his anger to give up in vengeance but the truth is like passion is like a cup within us and a cup can only hold so much water. So if you fill the cup with hatred, with vengeance, then you have no place left for God. And what Dante is doing is clearing out the hatred, the vengeance. So he has more place in his cup for God.
Well, yeah. Okay. So, so let's be clear, okay? You're absolutely right in that he needs to clear his hatred. He needs to clear his vengeance.
At the same time we we need to recognize that um when he goes in exile when he go becomes isolated when he when he is dependent on the mercy and charity of others that only makes him even more angry and vengeful and hateful. Right? So then the question then is how can he go about dissipating and planting himself all this hatred, anger and vengeance. And the answer, of course, is
by riding the inferno.
By writing the inferno, by going on this journey into hell to see that hatred, vengeance can only lead you into hell. Okay? It's something that he must experience for himself in order to cleanse himself. That's why you must first go to hell before you go to heaven because you must experience for yourself that anger and hatred can only lead in one direction. Okay?
All right. Let's keep on going. Verse 73. And so benign will be his care for you that with you too in giving and in asking that shall be first which is with others last. You shall beside him see
135:17one who at birth had so received the seal of this strong star that what he does will be remarkable. People have yet to notice him because he is a boy. For nine years and no more have these spheres wheeled around him. But before the Gone GS the noble Henry, some sparks will have will have marked the virtue of the Lombard. Hard labor and his disregard for silver.
Okay, so now he's just sucking up to his patron, right? He he's in exile. His patron is the one who is financing the writing of Divine Comedy. He's saying what a great guy this guy is. He's selfless.
He he he he will he will he will do great things. Okay. Uh, keep on going.
Verse 85. His generosity is yet to be so notable that even enemies will never hope to treat it silently. Put trust in him and in his benefits. His gifts will bring much metamorphosis. Rich men and beggars will exchange their states.
What I tell you about him you will bear. Inscribed within your mind, but hide it there. And he told things beyond belief, even for those who will yet see them. Then he added, "Son, these are glosses of what you had heard. These are the snares that hide beneath brief ears.
Yet I'd not have you envying your neighbors. Your life will long outlast the punishment that is to fall upon their treacheries." After that holy soul had with a silence showed he was freed from putting in the woof across the web, whose warp I set for him. I like a man who doubting craves for counsel from one who sees and rightly wills and loves. Replied to him, I clearly see my father how time is hurrying toward me in order to deal me such a blow as would be most grievous for him who is not set for it. Thus it is right to arm myself with foresight, that if I lose the place most dear, I may not lose the rest through
137:17what my poems say. down in the world of endless bitterness and on the mountain from whose lovely peak I was drawn upward by my lady's eyes and afterward from light to light in heaven I learned that which if I retell it must for many have a taste too sharp too harsh yet I if I am a timid friend of truth I fear that I may lose my life among those who will call this present ancient times the light in which there smiled the treasure I had found within first began to dazzle as would a golden mirror in the sun. Then it replied, "A conscience that is dark, either through its or through another shame, and deed will find that what you speak is harsh. Nevertheless, all falsehood set aside, let all that you have seen be manifest, and let them scratch wherever it may itch. For if at the first taste your words molest, they will when they have been digested and as living nourishment, as does the wind, so shall your outcry do.
The wind that sends its roughest blows against the highest peaks, there's little cause for claiming honor. Therefore, within these spheres upon the mountain, and in the dismal valley, you were shown only those souls that unto fame are known. Because the mind of one who hears will not put doubt to rest, put trust in you if given examples with their roots unknown and hidden, or arguments too dim, too unapparent.
Okay, great. Thank you. All right, so what we're going to do now is we're going to try try to put everything together. Okay, this morning we discussed the sexual dilemma facing Dante. Okay, first of all, he has to make sense of why his life sucks, why he's in exile, why he's begging people for charity.
Um, at the same time, he's trying to figure out why the world sucks. Why is it that there's
139:18so much chaos, there's so much infighting, there's so much treachery, there's so much hatred, there's so much vengeance. And we talked about how um previously there's hope that great individuals such as Francis and Dominic would change the character of the Catholic Church uh so that it would become less corrupt. But instead uh the Catholic Church maintain to be corrupt and change the radical nature change the nature of the Franciscans and the Dominicans. Okay. So what hope is there in this world?
Okay, that's central question. In a world of complete darkness, where is the light? Okay. All right. So now we just read uh the prophecy given to Dante saying, "Yeah, your life is really really going to suck after you leave heaven.
You've been to hell. You've been to purgatory. Now you're in heaven. You've seen the universe. And when you return, it's going to be one of exile, one of isolation, one of poverty.
And yet Dante is has now purpose just like Inas, right? Inas here hears that he will found a great empire called Rome. And that excites him, that propels him to greatness, that propels him to victory. And now Donna hears, "Oh yeah, when you go home, you're just going to suffer all the time." Yet it also propels him to purpose and to greatness. Why?
What is going on here? Why would the idea of exile and isolation give him hope?
Uh yes.
Um so difference between Dante and most people who go through exile and isolation is that he's given a preview. He's given a peak behind the curtain. When we say that it's easier for a rich it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than it is for a
141:19rich man to enter heaven, the rich man will say to you, "Well, I can't see that far." Or maybe they don't have the willpower to keep themselves from being wealthy and being evil. However, Dante has had a glimpse of what lies behind the veil and he knows that his life has a purpose and is this guiding light, this actual thing that keeps him going onwards.
Um, okay. Yes. Let's be more specific and concrete. Okay. Okay.
Let's think about this. Dante, let's imagine Dante uh be if he didn't actually experience hell, purgatory in heaven. Okay. His father pairs to him, his grandfather pairs to him in a dream. Okay.
He's at home. his grandfather appears to him in a dream and says that um my grandson in two years time you'll be exiled from the city you love the city you were born the city that your family has inhabited for generations how would he feel despair right but after he's been through this journey the same vision the same faith gives him hope and purpose. Why?
Uh yes.
Well, also as a poet, it's a great way to focus your energy into creativity. Well, like if you take off all the distractions and you put all your energy into creating, then he can think, okay, maybe it's this time, this period of my life where I can just put everything I know and all my everything I can accomplish.
Okay. Okay. So that's a good start. Okay. Um if he is to achieve divine harmony, he needs to go into isolation.
Okay. This isation that's going to last 20 years. By the way, it's going to take about 20 years to to finish divine harmony. Um okay, so that's the start. Okay.
He he appreciates that his purpose
143:20is to go into exile and isolation in order to write this divine comedy. But this raises a question like well that kind of sucks. I it's like going to prison for 20 years and then my reward will be I'm dead right. Um so I am reminded of something I once saw on a Catholic website. So it was actually about a saint a former non saint and her it was one of her quotes and she said uh I I am impatient to suffer and die for Christ.
So there's this let's say there's this almost preoccupation with suffering and the enobing of the spirit in Christ in Catholic uh theology like they think that suffering especially in the name of Christ en nobles the spirit. So maybe Dante is subconsciously uh subconsciously likening himself to a Christ figure and he thinks that suffering for the sake of Christ for the sake of his great work is a sign of his faith and he would be no for this suffering than he would have been if he did not suffer.
Yeah. Okay. And that's not wrong. And that's exactly what Francis and Dominic felt as well. Okay.
But let's let's think about this. Okay. You're Dante and you're writing Divine Comedy not for yourself, not for God, but for others to read as well. So you want others to be as inspired as you in serving God, right? You understand?
So he has to somehow convince you to be like him. Yeah. I mean like of course he understands that the exile and isolation will allow him to write the vine comedy, but he needs you to move you, inspire you in in in a way that allows you to understand why he's doing what he's doing and also to want to emulate him, right? to want to also go into exile in isolation in order to be truly creative. So, how does he do that?
All right, let let's not let's just imagine him just as
145:22a normal person just like you and me. Okay, he's no different and he is in the situation where he knows he's going into exile in isolation for the next 20 years uh to write Divine Comedy and after he finishes he's going to die. That's what the prophecy says. So, how does he find hope and purpose in this fate? Uh m maybe it's kind of inspiration because as a writer you must have a inspiration which could allow you to have a great work.
So maybe I think what Stanton want to do is not just try to make money but he just try to create a masterpiece uh in his own life. So maybe that is yeah the reason why he feel he got hope.
Okay. All right. So so let's think about the sequence of events. Okay. This prophecy doesn't happen in hell.
It doesn't happen in purgatory. It happens in paradise. And it is the last prophecy before he goes and fulfills his destiny which is to meet God. Okay. So what does he learn in hell purgatory and paradise which prepares him to accept this prophecy?
What is it these past two days? What do we learn about the universe? What are some ideas that we've learned these past two days? Let's let's just start naming them. Okay.
Uh yes,
maybe it's because he witnessed the light and the greatness and the beauty of God with his own eyes and that gives him the courage to continue.
Okay. Okay. Again, you're being too general. I want I want specifics. What do we discuss these past two days?
And what impact would they have on Dante and
147:23how they would change the way he sees the world? Okay. Well, ask yourself this question. these past few days, how have reading Dante changed the way you've seen yourself and the world? Think about this question.
Okay? Use your intuition, use your imagination. How have I changed in the way that I see the world? Yes. Well, well, you see the the human himself as like the middle of the universe and then he is like he's like what embodies the universe and he's and through through our actions we can like improve the universe or worsen it.
Okay. Yeah. Exactly. First first the first thing he he recognizes that you matter. Your actions matter regardless of who you are.
You do matter. Okay, Ricarda. I mean, she did something really really good. I mean, like she she she found herself to God and then she broke this vow and it matters. Okay, in her mind it's like what?
I mean, like God's really really busy, right? God's like taking care of the universe and I'm just like this little princess in this poor little place and I break a vow but I hurt no one and I was faithful to him all this time but my one little action at this one time does matter. It matters so much that it changes the universe. Okay, that's the first thing that Donna realizes I do matter. Okay.
So, what I write does matter that's empowering, don't you think? Right? Cuz like why else am I spending 20 years writing a poem? And the answer is because God is watching you. Because everything you write will be read by God
149:23and then it will be reflected throughout the universe. With my actions, I can change the very trajectory of the universe. Okay, that's the first thing that we learn. What else do we learn?
Yes.
I think it's also important to remember that this is a two-sided coin. Like uh on one hand, your actions matter and you can change the universe. On the other hand, your misactions matter and your misactions could make the universe worse. So instead of this constant fear of damination or constant fear of hellfire, Dante replaced it with a a humanistic a humanistic fear of what will my actions truly do? like he is taking take he has taken the reigns back from the devil and he's given the reigns to himself.
Yes. Okay. This is really important guys. Okay. At this time in history, the Catholic Church tells you to fear God.
You understand? Live a life of fear. Do not do anything because you'll probably screw it up, right? And what we learn is God is love. God will never judge you.
Only you judge yourself. Therefore, just live the life you want to live. Live your best life. Aspire to greatness. And that's what God wants.
Okay? God wants will. He wants desire. He wants you to be your creative best. So don't worry about angering him.
Don't be afraid of him. Love him as much as he loves you. Right? Okay. Good.
Really important, guys. Okay. One, we do matter. Everything we do does matter. Number two is God is non-judgmental.
He will never ever punish you for doing what you think is right. Okay? Just follow your heart. Good. What else?
What else have we learned these past two days?
151:28Just ask yourself what have you learned these past few days? What ideas have stuck in your head? Yes. Uh
that the fear of unknown stops you from um aspiring to the higher.
Yeah. Right. Good. Yeah. Don't be afraid.
Just love. Just trust. Okay. Because love is the underlying principle of the universe. God is all love.
Okay? Don't be afraid. Take the risk. Take that leap of faith. Good.
What else?
Like follow your heart and do the free will and do not be restricted by the material world.
Yes. Exactly. Okay. Don't care about the judgment of others. If God's not going to judge you, no one else is going to judge you.
Okay. Just follow your intuition. Just follow your heart. Do what you believe is right. What else?
Yes.
You have to forgive yourself to be a better person. Okay. Yes. Okay. Let go of the past.
Forgive yourself. Good. What else?
You need to care about poor guy because if you care about them, even give them money, maybe you will go to heaven with with him.
No, that's not what my thought believes.
Yeah. Also, the most important thing of course is that there is intentionality in the universe. We are all part of God's grand design. Remember the metaphor that Beatus uses is the body, right? God is the mind.
We're all part of the body. So, we are moving towards God's plan. Okay? All right. So, this is all that we've learned these past two days.
And think about how if you learn if you believe these things, you no longer fear exile. You no longer fear isolation. Why? Yes. Well, because in your heart, you know that you're doing the right thing.
Like if you like from your instincts and your intuition, you didn't know if you
153:28did the right thing, then obviously it wouldn't make sense. But if you know from just from your intuition that you know the right thing, then it's probably the right thing. You you like don't need logic or something to like figure things out. You just need to
So the most important thing, and you say this is like Thy knows it's not his fault for his exile and isolation. This is really important guys, right? It's not my fault. I didn't do anything wrong. Why is this?
Yeah.
So, this is something that uh confuses me like uh earlier on you said that if there's a will, there's a way. And you use the like you use the example of Picarda. And Picarda is in a similar situation to Dante. She is oppressed by a militaristic force and she is forced to go against her vows and well how is Dante's situation different? If he believed in will so much why couldn't he have used the will to find out a way to stay in Florence?
Okay. All right. So the so you raised this question. Okay. And the um answer is their purpose is different.
Do you understand? But Carter's will is always to serve God, to be married to God, to live in the nunnery, right? What is not his purpose? What is his purpose?
Sure.
To write the divine comedy, guys. Okay? Do you understand? That's what his will is. His will is not to be the mayor of Florence.
His will is not to be the pope. His will is not to conquer his enemies. His will is to be the poet, the greatest poet in human history. That is what he wants. Okay.
Did you understand? Yes.
So like as we mentioned everything has a consequence and then like Dante did end up dying because of malaria after he finished the divine comedy. Do you think that is his consequence? Like he had fulfilled his will of writing this
155:28poetry and then after that his mission is complete and do you think that is like his will or like God's will or like
Okay. So okay that's a great question. Okay. Um, why is it that he died after he finished Divine Comedy? And I'm going to say something really strange for you guys.
But let me ask you this question. Do you think Dante was a healthy person?
Probably not.
Probably not, guys. Okay.
Probably not. He was probably sick most of his life, right? And that's why probably why he had the visions that he did because he spent most of the time in bed dreaming.
Right.
Yeah. So, I would argue that if it weren't for Divine Comedy, he'd probably be dead at 40. He started Divine Comedy at maybe around 40 and he died in his 50s. Do Do you understand?
Yeah.
Okay. I mean, like like it it was his will that kept him going,
right? So, you could say, well, it was because he spent so much effort into running the van that he exhausted his body and he caught malaria and then he died. But you can also argue, well, the guy was probably not healthy to begin with. Okay. Most most of these poets are not athletes.
They're not the healthiest people you you you will meet.
They're often like, you know, daydreaming or getting drunk or something. Okay. But they're not working out and stuff. Does that make sense?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
Yeah. Yes.
So, something I'm curious about is Dante's attitude towards predetermination. Like if you look at this passage, so he's basically prophesying to himself like at the at his time while he was writing this passage, all of these things that the angel has said to a allegedly past version of himself has already happened. So he is trying to frame this as okay, I've been told that this is going to happen. This is not a surprise to me at all. Which is seems very uh wishywashy.
Okay. Okay. Let's let's be clear, okay? Dante is writing this not to console himself, okay, but to give us hope. Does
157:29that make sense? Okay. Because we are Dante in the poem. So when we read this, we shouldn't feel despair for the fact that we're going going ex into exile. It should give us hope.
We're trying to figure out why this is the case. All right. Number one, and this is most important, is we know it's not our fault. Right. Okay.
And this is important because what's the number one reason why divorce traumatizes children? Do you guys know? They think it's their fault. Okay. And that's why if they didn't think it was their fault, it divorce wouldn't matter.
Okay. But children think this divorce was my fault and that's what traumatizes them. Okay? So Dante hears like, "Oh, it's not my fault. This is all pre-ordained." And they they will blame me.
But God himself knows that it's not my fault. So my heart can rest at peace. Okay? I can forgive myself. Uh I can forgive others.
Okay? So so let's focus on this guys. Okay? Number one is let's feel on this clearly. Number one is Dante knows it's not his fault.
Okay? Let's keep on going. What now? I know. But let's let's let's think about the psychology.
Okay.
You know it's not your fault. Now what?
I'm interested in how he just accepted this fate.
Yeah.
Cuz uh if if it's it's his fault. He was like, "Yeah, I'll I I I deserve this, but it's not his fault." And he's like, "Why this kind of things uh this kind of accident happened to me?" And um is he gonna feel like kind of unfair or just
Okay. Right. Right. Right. Right.
Yeah. Go on.
Yeah. Because his to to follow on on to the his faith is part of his destiny. So he embraces his destiny. Um and would be
159:29what's next? Embracing his destiny.
Yeah. He now appreciates this is just my fate and it was it's part of God's plan and it's my purpose to write divine comedy. I don't know why. I don't know what impact it will but given the fact that my grandfather told me that I'm going to go into exile in isolation. It's not my fault.
And I know for a fact that God loves everyone that God has a plan. There's a reason, a perfect reason for everything. And I'm part of this plan that I should just do what God tells me to do, which is wet thine comedy, right? And we call this what? Faith, hope, love.
Okay, that's his salvation. The faith. Faith is understanding the nature of the universe that God loves us. God has a plan. And if we just follow the plan by following our intuition, things will turn out okay.
Okay? We don't know how. We don't know why, but they'll turn out okay. That's what faith is. Hope is to see what your what the future is.
The future is you'll finish divine harmony and that's enough. Okay? And then love is why are you doing this? You're doing this for love of Beatric, love of family, love of God. Okay?
Right? These three things which he discovers here. Get Yes. So to sum it up, yours you your idea is that Dante believes in predetermination by God, right?
Okay. All right. So let's think about this. Okay. This this is a good question.
Okay. This is actually a really good question. So thank you. Okay. We just said these past two days that free will is fundamental law of the universe.
We also say that if there's a prophecy then there has to be predetermination. So how can we make sense of this paradox? Is this a paradox? Yes,
161:29that arrow the the arrow thing that um the go the girl was mentioning, right? Because because if there's no ordinal relationship between those things predetermination is just determination. There's no what's what comes first and what comes next.
Okay. Yes. Well, I just I'd just say that free will is like there's a there's like a plan, but like we can choose through free will to either follow it or not follow it. Like there there is definitely a plan for every person, but like you don't have to follow. There's like people that go against their intuition, right?
Like they do.
That's right. Okay. So remember what free will is. Okay. God loves you.
God is trying to pull you back to him because there's an aspect of God inside of you, right? You desire to return to God. Okay, this is the fundamental logic of the universe. God loves you. God's calling you back to him.
You love God. You're returning to God, but you have the free will to deny God and turn away from God. That is the free will. Uh yes.
So a followup question. So if God has a plan and God God allows you to use your free will to turn away the plan, then let's look at the people who prosecuted Dante who drove him out of Florence. So are you because God knows that these people are going to drive him out from Florence. Therefore God must have set the plans for these people and therefore God God's plan for these people his all good plan for these people is for them to do such an evil thing to drive him out of Florence. So why
does anyone want to respond to this?
Those people sin on their own on behalf of their own free will, right? It's not God's plan for them to commit do what they did.
In that case, how did God know about it?
Okay. Okay. You're assuming God cares what happens here. God doesn't really care what happens here, right? What God's plan is is for us to return to
163:29him. Does that make sense? God is calling for us and we want to return to him. So our actions here is to return to him. Okay?
And what happens here on this planet doesn't really impact um this grand logic. Does that make sense? Um, I don't I don't think you made it clear like how how God knew that what the bad guys were going to do. If the bad guys really had free will and if they and if God God's plan for these bad people is for them to be bad, how could a good God do this thing?
Right? So, in this prophecy, what happens to all these people who have persecuted Dante? They have a worse fate than Dante. Do you understand? Yes.
Dante, you have exile in isolation. But these people have a much worse faith than you do. So what what's the problem here?
The problem is uh if God's plan is for these people to be bad, then how could a almighty good God like make people do bad and then condemn them to hell? It's like playing a puppet show. Why would you make the bad puppet? Well, I mean I mean if you do bad things, bad things are going to happen to you, right? If I hit you, you don't hit me back.
I think there uh shouldn't be the dichotomy of bad and good in any serious academic discussion. I mean uh we are uh you know in a very complex world and uh of course there is retri retribution there is you know uh good and bad but we cannot really you know just tag or anybody or any events just with very simple uh you know uh tag of good and bad which will make make discussion very
165:29difficult. So I I think the the minor characters uh in Danty's life or in Denty's books uh um you know are also part of the plan as Danty intended but um uh but you cannot say that their actions are evil uh and therefore it should not be tolerated by God. I don't think there is there is no need there is any need to discuss even this logic.
Okay. You Yes.
Yeah. I was thinking I think earlier we were making a point where like people do what they think is good based on their judgment. So I was thinking what if those people were doing what they thought was like good was the right thing and then they um sent like Dante in exile but then it was like objectally bad because like God didn't want it so that's why they got punished. That was kind of my interpretation. I don't
Okay, look the situation is never as complicated as this. Sorry the situation never as simple as this. Right. What happened was that um Donn was sent into exile and he said you and then they said to him, "You can come back, but you must confess to certain crimes and D's like no screw you. I didn't do anything wrong.
Do you understand?"
Oh, yeah.
So, it's not it's it's not simple as it's not black and white.
Okay. Okay.
Do do you understand?
Yeah.
Okay. Never in life is are things black and white.
Uh uh did there are four people here. Okay. So, let's go one by one. Okay. uh you first.
It's also that we're framing that the people who say exiled Dante, they were doing a bad thing. But if they had been more more pure in their thinking and their intentions, maybe they wouldn't have have gone against Dante. So they had maybe God had a good predetermined plan for them, but they went against it because they didn't look at the the situation in the right way.
Okay. All right. Okay. So, some something I want to say is this, okay? Um,
167:30no one is really at fault because the situation in Italy is one of complete chaos and warfare. Okay? It's um, kill or be killed. So, in their eyes, what they're doing is they're trying to protect the families. They're trying to protect their children.
Okay, so this is a problem that Donnie is trying to deal with. We live in evil time where everyone is forced to do evil and so what can we do about it? Okay, that's a question that Donnie is facing. For whatever reason, we just end up in a situation where evil rules and those who commit the most evil are usually the ones who triumph in this world. Maybe not in the next world.
Maybe they'll go to hell, but in this world they will always triumph. And so what can we do about this? And the answer isn't, oh, we'll just wait for God's judgment day. Let's No. No.
There has to be a different answer. We're trying to figure figure out what it is. Okay. Uh yes.
Yeah. Something that came came to mind on top of what we just discussed was simplicity. When Dante embraced his destiny to to write Divine Comedy, it simplified his whole world view down into it's simplicity is close to God. Whatever God is, whatever love is, it's simple. I don't know if that makes sense.
No, it makes perfect sense, right? He now has focus. Before he had doubt, he had ego, he had fear. Now he just has focus. like I'll just write the vine comedy and uh I I'll I won't die until I finish it.
Okay, now he has complete will. The absolute will is now the contingent will as well. Okay, so that's so so that's what this prophecy has done for him. It's given him the future and he knows his place in the universe. Okay.
Uh so sorry, did you have a comment or question?
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe the point
169:32was that um Dante, he would have never gone through everything if the people um chose to do not chose to do evil to him. So through the so like it's a bit complicated, but like um they chose to do that, but if they didn't choose that then through free will then Dante would have never went through all of this. So like how like so in the end it wasn't really a plan from God himself,
right? But what Donnie recognizes recogniz that everything has a purpose. Do you understand? Everything has a purpose and that's why he's able to forgive others because as long as he achieves his purpose then everything so he still he still would have achieved his purpose if he wasn't persecuted.
No, he would not have been able to because he would not have been in exile. Right. You need isolation, you need exile in order to write Divine Comedy.
So he's so he needed other people to persecute him basically.
Um but others were going to persecute him anyway because this is all political faction fighting, right? This is all political violence right now.
Yeah.
Okay. All right. Did did you have a question?
Yeah. Because you know uh first first of all I think original saying is kind of thing that been written in the Bible. It means that every people have sin. This is for sure. And you can't say that it's not my fault.
You can say this is not my thing, you know, because saying is original one. Everyone have to be blamed because we we we steal the apple right from the tree. And secondly, I think the odyssey is also kind of thing maybe that influence maybe because in Odyssey uh you know the hero just always have to excel, right? So maybe Dings Yes. Maybe dentist every hero need to be Yeah.
Excel maybe.
Okay. All right guys. Okay. So let's let's now focus on the question. Okay.
The question is Dante is in a time of
171:34pure hopelessness whenever you do uh ends up causing even more problems. And so for Dante what is the solution? what is the only way forward? Okay. And this prophecy tells him, you will go into exile in isolation.
And in exile in isolation, it doesn't say this, but you're but it's to write the divine comedy. Okay. So why would the divine comedy be a possible solution to all this chaos and darkness and violence? Why? Uh yes.
because it reignites all the types of thinking the religion and it guides through love and because love is uniting while it it's a way to just unite everyone whatever the culture or area.
What does divine comedy do and bring to the world that is missing in Europe at this time? It just like it proposes a solution for people who like went through suffering without understanding why they went through suffering because like they went through suffering before because of obedience but through the Catholic Church but now he proposes a new solution that you can go through suffering because you actually want to make a positive change in the world and not just like obey the church.
Okay. But but how okay so you suffer and now you can now explain your suffering. What do we call this? order.
No. Okay. So, so, so think about this. Okay. This is really important.
You what? No. No. Think about this. Before divine harmony, this was not this did not
173:34um this was not present in Europe. And with because of its absence, people were committed tremendous violence against each other. people were um just fighting all the time. Okay. So Dante decides I must go into isolation exile in order to write the vine comedy in order to bring this into Europe.
Right? What is Divine Comedy
and why does it change the destiny of Europe forever?
Is it about forgiveness? how people as individuals can forget forgive their themselves and each other.
What allows you to forgive someone?
To recognize a sin and to recognize it's not necessarily their fault.
To recognize it's not their fault. And how do you do that?
By unconditional love.
Observation.
Observation is not enough. What else do you need? Let's let's talk concretely. Okay. No, let's let's feel let's talk concretely.
demon instance we we we forgive someone. Okay, just tell us the story and we'll figure out what's going on.
Like if someone gets angry, he hits you and then you just think it's because of his emotions and it's okay. Like
but what allowed you to know it was his emotions?
Like knowledge about
what what knowledge?
Empathy.
Empathy. Yes. Okay. What allows for empathy?
Love,
wisdom. Like
Okay. When when you're saying when we're saying this person hit me because he's angry, he's emotional, so he lost control. What are you really doing?
Uh consideration, considering the person you go beyond, you know, you go above him in your knowledge and reasoning.
What does it mean to go above your reasoning and your knowledge?
You put yourself into his shoes or
175:36how do you do that though? What? Imagination.
The imagination guys. Okay. Do you understand the imagination? Yes.
I think it's also like looking inside yourself. Inside like uh before like when D was first exile, he he was not thinking about all of us. He was thinking about the outside. He was thinking objectively these guys harmed me and objectively I'm so angry about it. But when he looks inside that he can find the strength to continue and the strength to forgive.
So he's uh using this to tell people to look inside not outside. Uh
yeah because empathy is basically u imagining what would I do if I were him?
Exactly. Okay. Does that make sense to you? Okay. When you forgive someone, it's an act of imagination, right?
Because you're imagining that if I were that person, I would also get angry and hit someone.
Do you understand?
Sometimes it's also knowledge. Like in some case you can imagine the person and then sometimes you just know why he's angry,
right? And that now is a solution, right? If we can increase the imagination of everyone in Europe, this violence, this infighting, this chaos, this greed, this corruption would have to decrease. Not coming to an end. You can't do that.
But it would have to at least decrease. Does that make sense? And before people lacked an imagination. Why? Why did people lack an imagination?
It's all about obedience to God. That's the church, the Catholic Church taught
the obedience. But what emotion was limiting your imagination? What emotion? What emotion limits your imagination?
It's what?
Fear.
Fear, right? You understand? So, let's go back to to your instance where someone hits you, right? If you're afraid, what do you do? You hit them back.
You understand? So it's the fear that limits your imagination. And at this time in Europe, fear is the dominant emotion. So if
177:36Dante is to release people from their fear, he must prove to everyone that God is love. You understand? And once he does that, the imagination now is released and people can be imaginative. And this will mark a new age in Europe and basically let Europe conquer the world. My question now is how does Dante prove to everyone that God is love?
Everyone now lives in a time when they're afraid of God. When they think that if I sin, God will punish me and send me to hell for all eternity. The fear is what limits imagination. What allows Dante to prove to the world that God is love? Don't be afraid of God.
Yes.
So, basically, he's making the unknown unknown. So, like uh people are scared of hell. They're scared of burning in hellfire. And to be honest, they don't really know that heaven exists here. And Dante Dante in the story here, he's taking a role of a pilgrim and he's going to all these places and he's like a tour guide and he's saying, "Oh guys, this is here.
This is that this happens. That happens. As long as you don't do that, this won't happen to you. And he's turning the unknown into a no. And that's how you remove fear.
Okay. So, let's just say that Dante opens university and says, "In this university, I'm going to teach you to be not afraid of God. And here are the reasons why you shouldn't be afraid of God." Okay? Would it work? Probably not.
Okay. Probably not. Because we know that St. Thomas Aquinus tried it, didn't work. The Franciscans tried it.
Didn't work. The Dominicans tried it. Didn't work. Okay. But Dante, he was able to prove that God is love.
How?
He has to live it.
Excuse me.
He has to live it and he has to write the divine comedy to channel himself as the example.
Okay. Yes. Okay. The divine comedy is
179:37what proves it.
Do you understand? Because what is divine comedy? Yes. Go ahead.
Well, um you know God loves you because he gave you the free will. like you like I mean the divine comedy says that through the will you can decide your own fate or your own destiny
but but that's just logic that's just reason I'm I'm saying like like how do you convince someone that God is love right and it has to do with divine comedy
all right
so what's going on why would divine comedy prove that God is love and and we just said that if Dante were to open a university and lecture on God is love, it wouldn't work. No one would care.
Uh they need to let the readers or the the audience go on the journey like he did to embody and to emphasize.
What is art, guys? Tell me what what is art? Why is art different from everything else?
Yes.
Uh it's like the difference between a encyclopedia definition of the emotion anger and a piece of art titled anger. So like uh the encyclopedia edition tells you it doesn't show you. It tells you what anger is. It's quickening of the pulse cortisol etc etc. But the art you look at the art and you feel it for yourself.
You can interpret it for yourself even but with your intuition you arrive at the same general conclusion.
An art is a channel of consonance uh between the creator and the uh observer or the experiencer.
Yeah. Yeah, truth uh truth because divine comedy if divine comedy contains the truth and reflects the truth over time across dimensions across different mediums it'll persist and therefore it's proven that
181:37yes okay yes did you have a yeah uh art is just like expression of like just expression of of of um ideas that you get from God you don't like philosophy for example is just like logical thinking and you can do that by yourself but expression to express art you need a higher form to be inspired by something.
Okay. Okay. All right. So, so let's be very specific. Okay.
Again, use your intuition. Did did you have a comment or
um it's a very simple one. So, I feel like it's just kind of similar to how the divine comedy state is longest because we could resonate with it so we believe in it. So, that's why it's the truth.
Okay. Okay. Yes. But but but but I want to be specific. Okay.
I want each and every one of you to think of a movie or a song or a painting or novel that has changed you. Can you think of something that has changed you? A piece of art that has changed you. Okay, just name it.
Yes.
Uh for example, like the you know the the movie uh deter Terminator because you know the movie that
is not a piece of art by the way. Okay.
Inception. Uh
Inception. Okay. Yeah. Bruce Lee.
Boo Lee. The movies Bruce Lee. Okay. His dark materials by Philip Pullman.
What? What? What? What?
His dark materials.
Is is that a novel?
Yeah.
By by what?
Uh, it's about growing up and it's about
Oh, so Coleman Historic Materials.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. All right. Great. Okay. Yes.
I I've actually read that. So So I I actually know this exam. Okay. But tell us why it's changed you as a person.
Why? like like Philip Pullman reading reading his dark materials has given me a new perspective what happens after I die. So uh this is kind of personal but I used to be a Christian. I used to have this vague faith that if I was good I will go to heaven and everyone who is bad
183:37towards me will go to hell. And when I read his dark materials it's like being freed and being burdened all at once. So sometimes the sometimes the emotions I feel when I am hurt are no one's fault but my own and any closure that I can find I have to find within this world because after we die all of us are equal every soul is equal and we be become new life so I need to have initiative I need to forgive and I need to avenge myself
okay all right so that's good okay so so this is an example of transformation right your worldview your worldview has changed The way you perceive yourself, the way you perceive the world is different. But what was it about historic materials that made this transformation possible?
Uh personally I would say it's the story. It doesn't force a moral upon me. I just read the story and I follow the journey of the protagonist and I get emphasized with them.
Okay. All right. All right. Okay. Yes.
Okay. Did you have a question or comment? Yeah, I think it it names something in yourself that was that used to be unnameable that you don't know how to um explain it and someone did it for you and and through it their music you you you feel that um emotions in your heart that like finally now you you you had this realization that that oh this really speaks to me and now I know how to
okay resonance Okay.
Yeah.
All right. So, so, so let's go back to his dark materials. Okay. Let let me ask you this question. Okay.
Do you did you cry when you read his dark materials?
Yeah.
Did you laugh?
Yeah. Some
Did you were you angry?
Yes. Extreme.
Okay. So, do you understand guys? First and foremost, art is an intense emotional experience.
185:37You guys understand this? If a song moved you, the movie touched you, it's because it was an intense emotional experience for you. And that's one. Two is this intensive of emotions. What it does is it goes into you or it opens you and allows for the entry of the ideas into you.
Okay? And these ideas, these words, these songs, these melodies, it's almost like a virus that grows over time, right? So the transformation doesn't happen like today, but happens over time. And you don't even know it's happening. And then over time, what happens is that your very perception of reality changes.
Does that make sense? That is why the divine comedy was proof of God. Okay? Because God could enter you and God could transform the way you saw the world. That's what divine comedy is meant to do.
It's meant to fill you with love. It's meant to fill you with God. It's meant to give you hope, faith, and love. Do you understand? It's a piece of art.
So what it does is what every piece of art does. It shakes you emotionally. It makes you afraid. It makes you happy. It makes you angry.
It makes you It makes you emotional. Okay? It's able to do so because it's truth and beauty. Does that make sense?
Yes.
All right. And that's why divine comedy marks a radical turning point in European history. It doesn't happen right away, right? It takes about 100 years, but because it's so beautiful, because it's so truthful, people are drawn to it.
187:38They will read it. And when they read it, they will transform because of it. And as they are transformed because of it, it will inspire them to create tremendous pieces of art. The Renaissance, those painters, Michelangelo, Donatello, they all read the line comedy. Okay, this why and how do we know this?
Because the Renaissance occurred in what city? Florence. Is it all just a coincidence? Right? Why Florence and why not Venice?
Why not Jane? Genua, right? Why Florence specifically? Does that make sense, guys?
Wouldn't Wouldn't they like ban the Divine Comedy in Thrones because it's from Dante and they accept him?
That's a really good point. Okay. So, if you analyze this and you're like, "Wait a minute here. It's heretical. It's heresy.
It's critical of the of the Catholic Church." They were not their banners. Why not?
That you're wrong. No, they were not their banders and it's uh already uh got into a force of itself. So it's any attempt to ban it will just backfire. Oh no, there's there's a very good reason why they would not fear ban comedy. Why not?
There's some history. Where does art come from? If someone like Leonardo appears and he's able to pick the Mona Lisa, what? How is he able to do this?
He would go against God.
Excuse me.
He would go against God because they're like divinely inspired pieces of work.
Exactly. Do you understand this? Okay. To try to burn down a painting to try to destroy an artwork would be to go
189:40against God. that who dares go goes against God, right? Because at this time in history, you see Leonardo paint the Mona Lisa, right? You ask Mona Lisa, "Hey, Leonardo, how were you able to do this?" He told you, "I didn't do this. God did this, right?
There's no other explanation." He's like, "Well, because of my synapses were connected in a certain way." No, it's like God. Sorry. Yeah.
Yeah. Again, I'm gonna nitpick your logic here. So, you said that uh Dante's Divine Comedy and the Renaissance occur occurred to in the same city, Florence. And you say that that's because of Dante's or by extension of God's influence. And I would have to say that there are genuine historical reasons why Florence is a fertile ground for the Renaissance.
There is the inflow of trade caravans and there's its uh fractured nature. A fractured state actually contributes to a flourishing of diverse ideas and there is a status as a city instead of a suburb. So there's a high concentration of intellectuals and its traditional status as a seminary as a place of education. So I think there's loads of reasons and it's not necessarily because of Dante.
I don't dispute this and if you talk to any academic he'll explain to you these very reasons. Okay, you have the Meduchi, the begging family, who are the patrons of the arts. You have the fact that this is a city-state system, so there's no central authority. The pope cannot enforce this authority on Florence. You had, as you point out, the trade, the wealth.
There are lots and lots of really good reasons. Okay. But my question is why Florence and not Venice or Genanoa or any other of these Italian city states, right? What did and what did it happen after Dante, not before Dante. In fact, the Renaissance happened, I would say about 100 years after the death of Dante.
Okay? And
191:40that's enough time for the company to fully fully incubate the culture. Does that make sense? Because you need to create mass, right? So maybe after Donnie died, there were maybe like 50 manuscripts and then maybe 100 manuscripts, then a thousand manuscripts. Okay?
But you need time for this artwork to fully embed itself in the imagination and in the culture. Okay? Okay. So, so again, we can argue forever what was the cause of the Renaissance. Okay.
But I'm just saying for this class, the purpose of this class, just take this leap of faith and trust me when I say that it was Dante's Divine Comedy that enabled the Renaissance. Okay. All right.
Personally, I would say that it was a huge factor of Renaissance, but I would not say that it was it directly enabled it. It was just a step in the great river of history.
Okay. Well, what I would like to do is teach Dante to the entire world and we'll see which parts of the world accept Dante. And I guarantee you the parts of the world that accept Dante, regardless of where they are, it could be in China, it could be in the Middle East, it could be in Africa. I don't care which parts, but I guarantee you this. Whichever parts of the world, make Dante part of the curriculum.
Make every child read Dante, I guarantee you they will flourish more than other parts of the world. I make you this promise. Okay. Uh yes,
that's super powerful. Well, we shall see that.
Yeah.
And that's my mission. Okay. This is why I'm teaching Dante right now. It's part of a larger mission to spread Dante around the world. But I guarantee you those parts of the world that do uh love Dante will flourish.
What what what does Florence mean by the way? Do you guys know?
Fenzi spring, right?
I thought I meant flourishing.
Yeah. Flourish. Spring. Flora. Same
193:40thing,
right? Okay. And And was it Greek for flourishing? Do you guys know? What's it Greek for flourishing?
Feudonia. Anyway Anyway, I went off topic anyway. Okay. But like but you see see how what what's happened, right? Darn is facing dilemas.
Okay. His life sucks. All of York sucks. Okay. And then he has this prophecy and he understands, okay, now my mission is to write Divine Comedy.
Okay. That's why I'm going to exile. That's why I'm going into isolation. Because by writing divine comedy, I can bring the imagination to the world. And it's imagination that is our salvation.
All right? So the divine comedy must be the greatest piece of art in the world for this to happen. And if I were it, I don't have to fear the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church knows this must be the work of God. All right? I can say whatever I want.
I don't care what I say. as long as it's beautiful and truthful, it will uh be saved. Okay? And so what saves it is the poetry, the beauty of the words, right? And again, unfortunately, we don't speak Italian, uh but if you were actually to read the Divine Comedy in Italian, you cannot help but be emotional, right?
You cannot help but be moved by the words. And um you will feel I think you I I I actually don't know this because I never tried but I I I bet that for some people they actually have an out-of- body experience where they will actually transcend their physical form and be more in touch with the divine. It it would be like taking Iawaska or a psychedelic of some sort. Okay. All right.
if if you were to actually practice um resetting the divine harmony. Does that make sense? Yes.
195:42Um I'm just uh you said that any any country any any region that uh adopts Dante as part of the core curriculum would flourish. And I would just like to point out that the country that most definitely does this right now is probably uh Italy. And I don't know what's your opinion on how they're doing, but I don't think Yeah.
Uh yes. Well, actually, I was in Italy in Florence and or near Florence and I've talked to people who studied the Divine Comedy for six years and they they all say that they hated it because the teacher didn't like they like they didn't do like teach it like you. It's like totally different experience. They they like only looked at the grammar and at the language, but they didn't actually like understand what you're saying about the law of an imagination. It's like really like plain in it.
Yeah. Okay.
Like they don't teach it the same way as you teach it.
Look, look, look, look. You can make anything terrible by making it by testing it, right? Like you just add test anything. It's going to be terrible because you're not because test just force you to abandon your imagination, right? And that's why I say you want to read Divine Comedy, you have to use your intuition, your imagination, okay?
And you just truly understand it. then you will transcend. Does that make sense? All right. Okay.
All right. So, now let's talk more about faith, love, and hope. Okay. I I want to be very specific here about what these things are. So, we're going to do is we're going to go to candle 24 and I'll set the scene.
Okay. The scene is Dante and Beatatrice are in heaven and they and Beatric becomes Dante's teacher and they are exploring the cosmos to find more about how heaven works to find out about the nature of reality the nature of God. So what do you think happens now? Can you guys
197:43guess? Do you guys know what happens now? We just talked about this. You learned and you finish your learning and now what?
A test.
There's going to be a test, guys. Okay.
There's going to be a test. Um, yes. So, before Dante can meet God, um, he has to prove he's worthy. And to do that, you have to pass an examination or or an oral examination. So there's going to be three uh apostles um Peter, John, and James.
And each of these apostles is going to test Dante on a concept. Um the first concept is faith, what is faith? Second concept is what is hope? Third concept is what is love? And only if Dante answers all three to the satisaction uh of these apostles, can now he ascend to the highest realm, the imperium?
Does that make sense? Okay, so this is really funny. You're in heaven and uh they make you take take an examination. Okay, so you can never ever escape tests. All right.
So, this is the qu the test of faith. And by the way, what's happening is that Beatrice has taught Dante and now Beatric has to observe Dante. Okay? She cannot participate. She cannot help Dante.
Dante is now by himself. Okay? He now has to prove that he's absorbed the true teachings of heaven. All right. Okay.
So, kind of count 24.
Candle 24. Oh fellowship that has been chosen for the blessed lamb's great supper where he feeds you so as always to fulfill your
199:44need. Since by the grace of God this man receives foretaste of something fallen from your table before death has assigned his time its limit. Direct your mind to his immense desire. Quench him somewhat you who forever drink from that source which has sought and longing seek. So, Beatrice and these delighted souls formed companies of spheres around fixed poles, flaming as they revolved as comets glow.
And just as in a clock's machinery to one who watches them, the wheels turn so that while the first wheel seems to rest, the last wheel flies, so did those circling dancers, as they danced to different measures, swift and slow, make me jud a judge of what their riches were.
Okay, stop. Okay. All right. So guys, um, for homework, not only do I want you to reread what we discussed today, but I also want you to look at artwork, imagery inspired by the D comedy, okay? It's a very visual poem and there's lots of paintings, lots of artwork inspired by it so that you know how creative it is, but you al but you also recognize how crazy all this is.
Okay.
Verse 19. From that sphere which I noted as most precious, I saw a flame come forth with so much gladness that none it left behind had greater brightness. And that flame whirled three times round beatrus while singing so divine a song that my imagination cannot shape it for me. My pen leaps over it. I do not write.
our fantasy and all the more so speech are far too gross for painting folds so deep. Oh you who pray to us with such devotion, my holy sister, with your warm affection, you have released me from that lovely sphere. So after he
201:44had stopped his motion, did the blessed flame breathe forth unto my lady, and what he said I have reported here. She answered, "Oh eternal light of that great man to whom our Lord bequeafd the keys of this astonishing gladness, the keys he bore to earth. Do test this man concerning the faith by which you walked upon the sea. Ask him points light and grave just as you please. That he loves well and hopes well and his faith is not concealed from you.
You see that place where everything that happens is displayed. But since this realm has gained its citizens through the true faith, it rightly falls to him to speak of faith that he may glorify it. Just as the bachelor candidate must arm himself and does not speak until the master submits the question for discussion, not for settlement, so while she spoke, I armed myself with all my arguments, preparing for such a questioner and such professing. On hearing that light breathe, good Christians speak. Show yourself clearly what is faith.
I raised my brow, then turned to Beatatric, whose glance immediately signal to me to let to let the waters of my inner source pour forth. Then I so may the grace that grants to me to make confession to the chief sh centurion permit my thoughts to find their fit expression and followed. Father, as this truthful pen of your dear brother wrote, that brother who with you set Rome upon the righteous road, faith is the substance of the things we hope for and is the evidence of things not seen. And this I take to be its quiddity.
Okay. Stop. Okay. All right. So what's happening is that uh Peter the apostle is now uh testing Dante and the first
203:45question is what is faith and what Don is going to do is he's going to repeat what Paul wrote in Hebrews. Okay, which is faith. What does he say? Faith. Faith.
Yeah. Faith is a substance of the things we hope for and and is evidence of things not seen. Okay. All right. So, um this entire situation is is kind of weird.
Why is it weird or paradoxical? Peter asks Dante, "What is faith?" And Dante's response is, "Well, I'm going to refer to the expert on faith, which is Paul. And I'm going to repeat what Paul said, which is that faith is the evidence of things unseen. Why is that weird? Why is this entire situation weird?
I guess
well because she despises the Catholic Church and Paul is the Catholic Church. So why would he like recite his words and not like the words of Jesus or something?
Um, so I think despise is a hard is is is harsh. Okay. Yeah. He he he's critical of the Catholic Church,
right? He thinks the Catholic Church should be reformed but you know he doesn't believe the Catholic church should be abolished but but something weird going on. Yes.
The weird thing going on is that all this while Dante is talking about imagination, intuition and importance of looking into himself and he criticized the traditional mode of theological learning which is to recite things and then spew it back out in your when when it comes to your own interest. And what he's doing right here is that he's reciting something and he's spilling it out. So what is he doing here?
Yeah. So so it is a bit weird don't you think? Right. So Don is saying you know use your imagination use your will and now he's partaking in examination right. Uh Hebrews are looking for Hebrews.
Uh Hebrews 11. Yes. Hebrews 11 is is is where this is um is okay. So may maybe
205:48we'll just read a bit of that. Okay. So this is written by Paul. Um, he's trying to explain what faith is.
Um, Hebrews 11, uh, NIV. Now, faith is confidence in what we hope for and an assurance about what we do not see.
Um, yeah. Right. But, but it goes on, right? So, so, so, so, yeah. So, so, so maybe you can have the whole passage.
Okay. Okay. So there's something really weird going on because where are they? They're in heaven, right? So basically, who can you have questioning D about faith?
Yeah. Well, no, not not but how about Paul? Because Paul's the expert on faith, right? If you're in heaven, you can access anyone. Get Paul to ask D about about faith.
So clearly this is a paradox, right? And this is another way that Dante um is signaling that he differs from the official teachings. Okay? So yes, he's going to repeat the official doctrine, which is that faith is the evidence of things unseen, but he's going to make subtle changes to it. Does it make sense, guys?
Because otherwise, why not have Paul test you? All right. Uh C can just uh read Hebrews 11. Okay. Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. By faith, Abel brought God a better offering than
207:48Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks even though he is dead. By faith Enoch was taken from this life so that he did not experience death. He could not be found because God had taken him away.
For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnest earnestly seek him.
Okay. Stop. Okay. All right. Okay.
So, do you guys understand what's going on? Okay. So, faith is the idea uh that you understand the nature of reality that it's all designed by God. Everything that happens is for a purpose and everything is leading to this point in history. That is what faith is.
Faith is the understanding of God. And here again, this is really important. Dante would agree with Paul's understanding of faith. And that's why he repeats Paul's uh understanding. Okay.
But at the same time, we need to be aware that Paul's not present. This is like really really weird, right? Paul's not present here. He's not mentioned here. So, we have to be suspicious about what's going on.
Okay? It seems as though Don is reciting, but Donna is going to make some nuance changes to this understanding. Okay. Can you can you read please?
Verse 64. And is the evidence of things not seen. And this I take to be its quiddity. And then I heard you understand precisely if it is fully clear to you why he has first placed faith among the substances and then defines it as an evidence. I next the deep things that on me bestow their image here are hid from sight
209:50below so that their being lies in faith alone and on that faith the highest hope is founded and thus it is that faith is called a substance and it is from this faith that we must reason deducing what we can from psyogisms without our being able to see more thus faith is also called an evidence.
Okay. All right. Okay. So again, he repeats Paul and now he's going to make adjustments to Paul, right? So faith for Paul is the evidence of things unseen.
It is the divine plan. It is what keeps the world together. It is what moves history. That is what faith is. What does Dante say and how does it change Paul?
This is a really hard question, but let's try to figure this out. Okay. So Paul says that faith is understanding obeying the underlying plan of the universe. Okay? That's what faith is.
There is a plan. There is a God. Miracles do happen. You don't see these things, but they do happen. That's what faith is.
You just tr you don't trust your eyes. You trust your heart. And then Dante says that faith is what binds everything together. It is what underlies everything. How is this different?
How how's this logically different? Can you repeat what he said? The next deep things. Verse 70. The deep things that on me bestow their image here are hid from sight below so that their being lies in faith alone.
And on that faith the highest hope is founded. And thus it is
211:52that faith is called a substance. And it is from this faith that we must reason deducing what we can from psyogisms without our being able to see more. Thus faith is also called an evidence. Okay, this is really hard. Okay.
Um, and I'm actually may get this wrong, okay? But I but but I think there's a difference between what Paul says and what Donnie says. Paul says that faith is the belief in a grand plan. That faith is what moves the universe. But Donnie says something different.
What is this? Yes.
He's saying that faith are the cornerstones of the universe. uh that you have to build on these cornerstones by reasoning and syogism.
So where does babe come from?
So he is saying that uh let me use an example here. So let's say that you don't follow Dante's advice and you use logic to define everything. So you go to logic your way out of believing that God exists. However, what Dante is saying here is that you just have to take it as a matter of faith that God exists and then you can build on the fact that God exists and then figure out what you want to what you want to know.
Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. All right.
So, so, okay. I'm going to tell you what I think this is saying and I could be wrong. Okay. And we I'll I'll just say what I'm saying and we'll see if it matches with the text. Okay.
I think in Paul's formulation what he's saying is that the plan already exists and you just have to believe it exists. Okay, it's sort of passive. Does it make sense? But what Donnie is saying is that faith is the underlying substance of the universe and it's what moves the universe and it's from faith we can build things. But this raises a question like where did faith come from in the first place and what he's trying to suggest.
Okay, I I may have this wrong. What he trying to suggest is that it's an active thing
213:53where we are projecting our faith is what it faith our faith is what drives the universe. Okay? In other words, it is what faith is is our imagination and it's the imagination that's the animating force of the universe. So we've gone from Paul which is this passive just accept faith accept miracles happen accept God h there's God to one that's active like you we are projecting our faith on the universe which creates a universe which moves things you understand okay so without us there would be no faith without us there would be no universe that that I think is the difference okay so can we just read it again make sure that my interpretation is correct I could be wrong okay but but let's read it again and See if this is correct. All right.
Verse 70. The deep things that on me bestow their image here are hid from sight below so that their being lies in faith alone. And on that faith the highest hope is founded. And thus it is that faith is called a substance. And it is from this faith that we must reason deducing what we can from soloisms without our being able to see more.
Thus faith is also called an evidence.
Okay. What what do you guys think? Do you think that this matches the text?
Yes.
A question. What what are the deep things that on me bestow the image here?
Uh where is it
in the first line? that the things that on me bestow their image here are hid from sight below so that the being lies in faith alone. So I mean he's talking about things like angels and demons and and God itself right the deep things the things underlying reality the things below reality
forces
to me
forces like underlying forces
215:54things you can't see right spirits right so these spirits must exist through something and he's saying it must exist through faith alone right but then what's faith then and how how these spirits come into being it must be an active force the imagination right and the imagination can only come from us or from God and I'm I I don't and I'm just interpret say it's coming from us I think okay
um this reminds me of an analogy I heard about God being a clock maker and whether the clock maker um kind of designs the inerts of a clock and leaves it be and the clock runs itself or um is there human agency in the clock running and I think um what I hear is that Paul sounded more passive in that um and and could be what was mentioned as more predetermined that things were set in motions. But here Dante is you're you matter. You're an active agent. Um imagine and do and you're part of um the grand truth and beauty of the universe.
Yes. Yes. And also like reason must be based on the imagination, right? You must believe God exists. You must believe there is a plan to the universe and from that you can reason things out.
Okay? Reason and imagination are not in conflict with each other. reason and imagination uh reason is built on top of imagination. Okay, so again we can argue back and forth and I wish we actually had a Dantic scholar in here uh who actually knows this stuff. Okay, because I'm just I'm just guessing.
Okay, this this is what my intuition is saying he's saying. Okay, do do you have foot notes
217:54on this? Let's let
I look forward to rereading and I mean this is I mean this is part of okay
what's very important about this text.
Okay. So so so we'll figure this out. Okay. So uh well go and do some research guys. Okay.
Tell me what this is actually saying. I think this is a um you he is suddenly changing the meaning of Paul. Okay. Paul again is passive. He's active.
What he's saying is that what D is saying that's very important is that faith is imagination. When you believe in God, you also have to believe in yourself. You also have to imagine. Okay. Faith is an active uh act of imagine of imagining.
It doesn't make sense. All right. Okay. Let's let's let's keep on going. Yes.
Oh yeah. So, so what it means it's kind of thing you have to determine your mind to to believe it so it will exist or if you don't believe it and the faith just do not exist.
Okay. Okay. So, so so let's let's clarify this. Okay. In science, right, God doesn't exist.
If you can't see it, it doesn't exist. Is is that correct? Right. And what D is saying is that if you do it that way, you'll never get anywhere. All right.
And yes.
Well, but no, but energy is something that you talk about inside. And energy you can't see. So energy can be God inside.
Oh, sorry. Sorry. It's not something you can't see. It's something you can't measure.
Okay.
You can measure energy.
Yeah.
Right. Okay.
So if you can't actually measure it, it doesn't exist. But then the but then it's like you have all these holes in science which is like what is consciousness right no one is allowed to ask this question what is consciousness
219:55yes
so I'm actually really interested in this question so like uh Dante has has been shown like these deep things right he has been shown these angels and Beatus is leading him around like this I mean I mean the Dante in the story not Dante the author and D. So is the Dante in the story's faith therefore diminished because he has seen and has proof of these things because he's no longer believing them on marital faith anymore.
Um okay that's a really interesting question and I think the simple answer but but but does anyone have a response to this? The divine comedy is a product of his faith. Do do you understand? It's only by having faith could he write the divine harmony. No, no, no.
I'm talking about the Dante in the story, not the Dante the offer.
Oh. Um, okay. Yeah. Go ahead.
Yeah. Um, I'm just really looking forward to understanding what love in this case in Dante's mind is because it it looks like faith. Faith looks like love, sounds like love. So,
yeah. So
I think uh you know uh I uh I try to uh read this uh text from on different layers. So the fundamental layer for me is textualist layer. So I'm trying to read everything Italian and in the in the uh you know in the presentation of the concept of face I think I if I'm totally I'm not fluent in Italian but I think the word used for evidence actually is agumente. So it's not evident it's not it's not evidence. So there I think there is a major uh diversion between the English and the Italian uh text.
So if we take the take evidence away and and uh change it to the argument. So there is
it's not it's on it's it's on line 76 credenza. So English is not an exact
221:56line is is face. I'm talking about evidence. Evidence. Evidence. Evidence in Italian is evidence and in uh in the Dante text it is argument.
It never use evidence. So it is argument. So wait sorry. Okay. So so okay.
Um let's think about what does line actually means? Faith is the evidence of things unseen. What what does that line actually mean? Faith is the evidence of things unseen. What does this actually mean?
That it tells you your senses don't don't like you you cannot trust your senses cuz your senses didn't uh doesn't catch catch it. But
wait right. There's no evidence this exists. Do you understand? It's all faith. Faith is the only evidence.
Faith is the only argument.
I think the the the original word argument is the perfect word because it is just an argument. It is just a you know a perception. It doesn't you do not have to deduct anything from it. That's faith
right. Okay. Yes. Okay. So that's the idea.
Okay. There is no evidence. Okay. Beyond faith. You you have to believe it exists otherwise it doesn't exist.
That's it. There's no point in arguing this because there's absolutely no evidence otherwise.
Yeah. Yeah. I know. So back to my question about the fictional Dante. Is the fictional Dante's uh faith diminished because he has proof of what he used to believe in?
Okay. So, um this is how I would understand. Okay. Dante the pilgrim would not have been allowed to go on this journey unless he had faith. Does that make sense?
Okay. But within the faith, which is his heart, there has to be some experiences that confuse him, that blind him from his true faith, which is like, why am I in exile, in isolation, and poor? If I'm
223:56truly worthy of God, why did God um have this faith for me? Okay, so he's going on this journey because he has faith. And this journey is meant to remove all the doubts and the fears from him. It doesn't make sense. The faith is always there.
He wouldn't be on this journey unless he had that faith, right? And this entire journey is meant to clarify for him why he has faith. So you're saying that he goes on this journey and he experiences all these things of his own free will that it is not poured into his brain.
Uh uh okay. So first of all the viney it's a pure act of imagination right? He didn't actually go to heaven. Uh he might have he might have had visions but he didn't actually go to heaven. Um, and this pilgrim, it's meant for it's meant to allow us to go on our own journey.
Do you understand? And because he's meant to represent us, then it depends on who you are. Doesn't make sense. There is no objective experience. It's all a subjective thing where if you read the text, you're going to have a different experience as Dante than if I were to read the text as Dante.
All right. So, this is a question that you have to answer by yourself. Right. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. So, like I'm just curious at where the line is. So we basically established that uh faith is believing in something despite material evidence to the contrary or a lack of material evidence.
That's I thought that's what we said.
Okay. So that what is what you what you saying?
225:57Yeah. Okay. So so so Paul says faith is the evidence of things unseen. Okay. So um to put this in very simple terms.
Okay. There are things that exist in this world that you can never prove that to exist. If you try to do so by science, by measuring it, you get nowhere. Okay? You will never prove God exists.
You will never prove conscious exists. But if you are to truly experience the world, if you're trying to make sense of the world, then you have to assume certain things about the world through your faith. For example, God exists, conscious exists, we are connected to God. Okay? And from then you can reason things out that help you seek the truth.
But there is no evidence that these things that God exists was was true in the first place. Okay? And and that's why science today has run into a dead end. Like I'm not sure if you guys study science, okay? But you look at physics, you look at neuroscience, it's all a dead end.
Okay. All right. Then tell me in the past 70 years what's physical what breakthrough in physics have we had?
Um we have had the particle accelerator which
that's technology. I'm talking about physics.
It has allowed us to uh have insight into the particular things that make up atoms.
I think what you are citing is basically just articles news articles. Uh you are not a scientist. You cannot make that uh you know even that comment uh you know what what scientific findings uh breakthroughs what are not you cannot make that judgment.
Look look look look you talk to any physicist and he'll tell you the last major breakthrough was quantum quantum mechanics quantum physics. Okay after that we we've had things like string theory that's like okay but it's not a major breakthrough.
Maybe maybe we should talk to a physic physicist. Okay, then go then guys go go home do do the homework. Okay, tell me
227:58in the past 70 years what major theory in physics have we had.
No, professor you're making an extraordinary claim. So it the burden of proof is upon you.
No, no, no. I'm I'm telling you what I've read like online. I I I'm telling you what what my own research
your own.
Well, I was a physicist. I was physicist from from the age not eight and I've studied also physics uh you know uh you know until college uh my intuitive understanding is I agree with professor Jang that uh the so-called breakthroughs are just in the last 70 years or 50 years is just you know just basically just speculation so I uh but I cannot say that I really on the same level as the top scientist in the world of course I just you know amature But I think uh uh you have to uh you have to do your homework before you make any comment. Thank you.
And just
yeah and just look at just look at neuroscience like the the people living
uh can you hear me? Yeah. like like people um dating back to maybe 5,000 years ago or maybe even before that people who live in Amazon forest they've been they since then they already been started using um psychedelics like Iawaska um but now we still have yet to figure out how um it works. I mean we know the theories like the synapses the receptors but how they um they form all those kind how they have all those experiences we don't know we we we've been having that medicine for thousands of years
okay and also like we don't even know how they came up with iaska right because iawaska is a blending of two plants there's like a million plants you could blend together right how do they know that these two particular plants together in a certain quantity would induce lose the psychedelic experience. That's pretty amazing to think about, right? If it's just random,
229:58uh, it would take a million years to figure this out. How did they do that? How are they able to figure out I will ask her?
Because without one another the the the only um the actually the psychoactive herb that can only last for like 10 minutes 20 minutes but with the other herb among millions of herb um they combine they they they um create this iawaska that can actually give you a full experience rather than just 10 minutes of tripping. Yeah.
So there's no way it could have been random, right? There's no way it could have been random. It was not like okay you know what what is try million plants and see which which which two work out right they could have been random
we've heard about the story of right the the how you even translate that the the guy who tried
herbs
yeah yeah who who taste this guy in ancient China who taste like thousand of herbs and um even got poison a few times and and he wrote a book about all all those herbs. I mean that that could be not true but I mean
okay look look look look okay I was I'm telling you no one knows how they came up with this okay it is the most one of the most powerful psyched in the world uh and it's safe and it gives you this transcendental experience and as you point out it requires two plants it requires two herbs in a certain quantity together okay and like it's like how do they figure this out because there like these millions of these herbs in the Amazon, right? Yeah.
I'm saying that I absolutely agree with what you say in the context of Dante. So, back to your m stated mission for this class is to spread Dante and make people realize how good Dante is. And I'm saying that uh I agree with your mission. I think it's really great. But if you try to make this super science, if you try to elevate this above science, above common knowledge, then I think it'll be really hard to convince people you will not be able to achieve your mission.
Okay. Okay. I didn't say D was better than science. I said that if you just work with the current um
231:59paradigms of science, you get into a lot of dead ends, including consciousness, including the a lot of things. Okay. All right. Uh any other comments or questions? Yes.
Uh I I do I do believe what the professor said because Dante is kind of a solution. It's kind of a possible way for us to lead into new future. So it doesn't mean that Danting just tried to deny ever you know philosophy or it can be Dant is not on top of it but as Danting is kind of a new channel I think maybe this is new possible. Yeah. So
you guys remember in Kel 2 Dante and Beatatrice were talking about the um the dark spots on the moon and Beatric said to Dante you should do a science experiment. Right. Dante is not anti-science. He's not. In fact, he loves science.
He he himself was a scientist. Okay. So, this is not an anti-science thing. But um but what Donnie is saying is that you have to believe certain things about the world if you are truly to seek the truth. And certainly certain these things are, you know, um are just things you can't see.
You can't you can't ever know. You just have to believe in them. That's that's what faith is. Okay. Um I want to share something.
Um I really appreciated David pointing out the word argument whether it's evidence or argument in in English. Um because um what the verse that captured me was on that faith the highest hope is founded. So um to me this passage is about um faith not just as um almost like a blind faith that if you think about what Paul could be saying um faith is just okay um you don't see it but that's what it is. So have faith in that. But this here is where hope is founded.
So it's a driving force upon which imagination
234:02um things people have action um it's a driving force.
Exactly. Okay. So so um we we'll end with this. Okay. What's the highest hope?
What is our highest hope? Exactly. Right. What what is the what's the highest hope?
You can try to answer.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I'd be curious to hear your answers. But what is salvation then? Yo, what is heaven? Return to God, right? That like like we've been talking about this like this like this morning which is like God is calling to us and we are calling to God.
Okay. That's what that's what the highest hope is to be able to return to God which is our salvation and redemption. Okay. Yes. My highest hope is to make every every organism, every living being in this universe happy and safe and loved.
And I don't think that has anything to do with returning to this God.
But that but that that's what theologians say is returning to God. Returning to God is if you return to God by yourself, that's not enough. Everything has to return to God. God has to be made whole, right? Because God split himself up into the world.
And now everything has to return to God for the for the world to be whole again. Okay? And that will be the highest happiness, the highest hope.
And my point is we can't just look inwards and be like, I'll meditate all day and this will be good. We have to do works, do good works.
No one is saying meditate all day. D is saying you have to like learn, you have to debate, you have to inquire, you have to experiment, right? That's what Don is saying here.
My question is has Dante done any good works? that Dante the fictional pilgrim has he done any good works as the result of his experiences?
I don't understand the question.
What what I'm saying is after he got enlightenment so uh he realized that his highest mission is to return to God and to make God whole, right? By making everyone around him return to God. So what has he done towards this goal? I'm
236:04talking about danting the fictional character, not the author.
Well well we we don't know because we haven't finished the line comedy yet. Right.
Okay.
Okay. When we get there, we'll we'll know we'll know what what he did.
Okay. Uh yes.
Clarification on faith. Um can I interpret it as just fully committing to a hypothesis? Like in Dante Dante's terms, fully committing to the hypothesis that fully committing to the hypothesis.
Well, if you change your hypothesis to faith, yes, committing to your faith.
Committing to your hypothesis that God exists.
No. Because hypothesis can be proven wrong.
Oh, that's true. That's true.
The faith is a is the assumption the the the thing from which everything must come, right? In order to achieve the highest hope, you need to have faith, right? Yes.
I think that the true value of this class uh is not only is about denting but also about God because people right now they don't believe in God. Most of them believe in money the power the science AI so which means that we lost our faith we lost our hope we lost our love but if the denting really you know can really recall people's memory maybe people can can just on the one hand develop their science for no problem but on the other hand they should know the faith hope and love is the most important thing that can leave people to live together happily but not just hatred or just have war maybe
so I get asked a lot what I think the path forward forward is okay we live in a world of war we live in a world where Donald Trump is president you know and so what is the path forward and the answer is if we all read Dante our imagination would be activated and we would um have the faith to achieve the highest hope okay the answer is not in
238:04me the answer is in you the answer is by reading Dante to achieve your true potential, your true self. Okay. All right. So, so we we'll leave that uh for now. We'll continue this tomorrow.
Okay. All right. So, but but uh thank you. Um you're all improving. It seems you're all transcending or you're all being enlightened.
Okay. And that's really the power of Dante. Just a few days of Dante is going to make you a better person. Okay. So again, the homework is to to reread what we read and make sure you understand what's going on.
Okay. And again, all this is my interpretation. Look for other interpretations. They're all available online, right? Um and really come to your own understanding.
And if you feel that my interpretation is a bit off or there's problems with um some of my um arguments, challenge us, okay? This is a place meant for free debate, open dialogue. I don't censor anyone. I don't stop anyone from talking. Okay?
All right, guys. See you tomorrow.